Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Discussions on various aspects of Sikhi
Nihal Singh Kanakpuria
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by Nihal Singh Kanakpuria »

Jasbeer Singh,

There was nothing wrong in that question asked by a young student (Why is he deemed knowledgeable by you on i am not sure) I am not surprised that other Sikh kids didn't know (i was raised in India as well (Mumbai) hence i am not surprised),

Early Education in India, Sikh or otherwise, does not focus on theology or answering of questions which require some religious retrospective thinking, Most students are content following the faith as understood by them and parents and kids from other religions seldom question with a intent to understand the other faith.(teasing and all is a different thing)

The RSS folks that i referred to are on this forum, i have been long enough on this forum to know posters who don't leave a chance to dissolve Sikh values , when posts like this come they jump on the bandwagon and get a chance to undermine Sikh articles of faith or Sikh Identity.

As to your judgmental statements about the paanth, No one has a right to judge how a individual Sikh adheres to their faith as long as those Sikhs don't go about preaching "or implying" that their way is the way of Sikhi i dont understand how it should concern you or anyone else for that matter.


- Nihal
JasbeerSingh
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by JasbeerSingh »

Nihal Singh Kanakpuria wrote:Jasbeer Singh,

There was nothing wrong in that question asked by a young student (Why is he deemed knowledgeable by you on i am not sure) I am not surprised that other Sikh kids didn't know (i was raised in India as well (Mumbai) hence i am not surprised),

Early Education in India, Sikh or otherwise, does not focus on theology or answering of questions which require some religious retrospective thinking, Most students are content following the faith as understood by them and parents and kids from other religions seldom question with a intent to understand the other faith.(teasing and all is a different thing)

The RSS folks that i referred to are on this forum, i have been long enough on this forum to know posters who don't leave a chance to dissolve Sikh values , when posts like this come they jump on the bandwagon and get a chance to undermine Sikh articles of faith or Sikh Identity.

As to your judgmental statements about the paanth, No one has a right to judge how a individual Sikh adheres to their faith as long as those Sikhs don't go about preaching "or implying" that their way is the way of Sikhi i dont understand how it should concern you or anyone else for that matter.


- Nihal

Nihal Singhji,


You cannot see my statements as Judgemental, I am a Kesadhari Sikh myself. But my dear friend...youth and youngsters do ask the relevance of hairs, it is a fact let's face it. I tell you there are so many non-sikhs who are highly impressed by the faiths' credentials but this practice of strongly adhering to hairs and ignoring or moulding the rest of rehat as per our own convenience just over shadow the great principles for which our faith has always stood for. I tell you about that guy ( he was a 20 yr old boy) he was from a Hindu family but had spend most of time in Gurdwaras and reading Gurbani has astounding knowledge of Sikh History, he was a regular visitor to the Gurdwara which had organized that educational seminar, many people from Gurdwara advised him to become a Sikh as he has great love for our Gurus, but this rehat is something in which he is not brought up with and which bothers him a lot that is why he asked questions and wanted clarifications and even gave replies (which I have not posted because that discussion was too long) but in the end he could not find any relevance in any of the replies, the counter answers which he gave just made all of us speechless as I said


Let me give you a glance
These were some of the reasons given..Many Gyanis said to him betaji it is our rehat prescribed by Gurus. His answer was "Guruji also prescribes a total 100% prohibition of Caste Names, then why so many Sikhs still keep it and no one has problem with it?" You won't believe the Reply was exactly the same of what I am getting here e.g. a.)This is not a big deal b.)It is just for respecting the family in which you have been born c.)Hairs are more important for a Sikh
COUNTER he gave:: If family name carries so much weightage then why Guru Gobind Singhji changed his name from Gobind Rai to Gobind Singh and made Panj Pyaras Singh and if this is not a big deal why he did it at all? There must have been some thought process behind it, do Sikhs undermine such a great step by Guruji then?

Another Argument was, It is our Natural Form, we must be as nature made us and we must not tamper with nature. His reply was Simple: If it is natural Form then how come applying Chemicals on the face has been accepted? That means the urban Sikhs themselves find the natural Form unacceptable and waste their time in applying harmful Chemicals on face and beard just in order to look "good'.


Also Nihal Singhji, again you pounced on RSS for trying to dissolve Sikh identity, why don't you yourself take a note why Sikhs themselves keep the surnames and identify themselves with Castes/Races. I don't know why guys like you don't speak up on this.. who is dissolving the identity here?
ADS
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by ADS »

Those who take the concept of Nature and keeping everything on the body natural have forgot to consider Human being as a form of Nature. Whatever we doing in our surroundings is nothing but an action by the Nature. Beautifying ourselves is an act of Nature and Not beautifying as well. That is why it is difficult to understand what is wrong and what is right.

We cut the grass in the garden so that the garden look pleasant and attractive to our eyes
We decorate our garden with different flowers
Imagine if we never cut the grass, will garden look pleasant, will the flowers add beauty to it?

Being human is not that a simple form of Nature. The thoughts in human mind should not block, it should keep flowing to save it from destruction. We will only maintain the righteous path only with discussions, and without getting offensive.

None of us have achieved any perfection yet. We all are in this process.
Ranjit S Bhinder
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by Ranjit S Bhinder »

The answer to all of the questions boil down to one following Sikhi strictly as the Guru intended vs evolving toward that goal. We are all at various stages. If the Hindu boy can follow the rehat as prescribed by the Guru, then he will become a shining example to all Sikhs. Paying attention to what Sikhs actually do in their lives may have caused him to become a little confused. Humbly, my two cents.
JasbeerSingh
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by JasbeerSingh »

Ranjit S Bhinder wrote:The answer to all of the questions boil down to one following Sikhi strictly as the Guru intended vs evolving toward that goal. We are all at various stages. If the Hindu boy can follow the rehat as prescribed by the Guru, then he will become a shining example to all Sikhs. Paying attention to what Sikhs actually do in their lives may have caused him to become a little confused. Humbly, my two cents.
Humbly, your two cents but at the same time it is also stamped that 'We are no more different' hence let's stop doing prachaar saying that 'Sikhi is different' that means that boy was right.. Old dogmas replaced by new ones. It would have been a great help had u provide some good reasons


Mr ADS,

A thought provoking comparison with cutting grass but at the same time we cannot question Guru's wisdom. We were never asked to keep hairs untidy. Kangha precisely does this job. Wearing a Dastaar, keeping kesh intact and cleaned and combed is the Sikh rehat. As per me a major factor behind could have been to keep away from Religious symbolism because the priestly class of mainstream religions always believed in specific appearances to look different from the rest of the crowd, gurus here emphasised that "Be as nature has made you" just maintain your body to bare minimum because unlike today at that time it use to take hours and hours to go to barber and cutting hairs. Gurus intended to save the precious time and also as one of our friend suggested Mr Romesh Kumar, it did emerge as socio-political identity. Because of this identity only Sikhi remains that's also a fact. Although this never meant that he is a blasphemous person who didn't keep his hair. Like it has become today.

Question was about the heights of hypocrisy prevalent among Sikhs. keep kesh but ok to apply chemicals to look good? Don't cut but apply Chemicals this cannot be justified. Second, Keep kesh because Guru Gobind Singhji gave the Hukam, but at the same time no need to adhere strictly to the practice of keeping only Singh & Kaur as surname and remove the Caste Name and identify yourself with panth rather than caste, most of us do the opposite today.

Moderator note: Hypocrisy is a common human trait. Identification with caste, using surnames, using makeup, tucking or tying the beard, using hair gel, etc., are separate (cultural) topics. Please start a new topic for these. May be your question was asked only to make a statement that only those Sikhs who are not hypocrite have the right to have natural hair. If so then, this topic should have finished a long time ago.
JasbeerSingh
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by JasbeerSingh »

Moderator note: Hypocrisy is a common human trait. Identification with caste, using surnames, using makeup, tucking or tying the beard, using hair gel, etc., are separate (cultural) topics. Please start a new topic for these. May be your question was asked only to make a statement that only those Sikhs who are not hypocrite have the right to have natural hair. If so then, this topic should have finished a long time ago.[/color][/b]
I never meant that but I am not able to get the answers may be that frustration is showing up in my comments, if you see my first comment the last point was about ignoring the rehat of doing away from Caste but sticking to hairs. My topic was seeking answers from my own brethren. I agree, They are separate topics but are related to Rehat Maryada, I am confused by the answers actually. How come one Rule is ignored and relaxation is allowed but another rule is so strict that it directly amounts to blasphemy. I never wanted to make a statement but seek answers to help me understand this complex situation more. Your Note is also helpful in this. I will take care that my comments doesn't give a feeling of making a statement.
Nihal Singh Kanakpuria
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by Nihal Singh Kanakpuria »

JasbeerSingh wrote:
Nihal Singh Kanakpuria wrote:Jasbeer Singh,

There was nothing wrong in that question asked by a young student (Why is he deemed knowledgeable by you on i am not sure) I am not surprised that other Sikh kids didn't know (i was raised in India as well (Mumbai) hence i am not surprised),

Early Education in India, Sikh or otherwise, does not focus on theology or answering of questions which require some religious retrospective thinking, Most students are content following the faith as understood by them and parents and kids from other religions seldom question with a intent to understand the other faith.(teasing and all is a different thing)

The RSS folks that i referred to are on this forum, i have been long enough on this forum to know posters who don't leave a chance to dissolve Sikh values , when posts like this come they jump on the bandwagon and get a chance to undermine Sikh articles of faith or Sikh Identity.

As to your judgmental statements about the paanth, No one has a right to judge how a individual Sikh adheres to their faith as long as those Sikhs don't go about preaching "or implying" that their way is the way of Sikhi i dont understand how it should concern you or anyone else for that matter.


- Nihal

Nihal Singhji,


You cannot see my statements as Judgemental, I am a Kesadhari Sikh myself. But my dear friend...youth and youngsters do ask the relevance of hairs, it is a fact let's face it. I tell you there are so many non-sikhs who are highly impressed by the faiths' credentials but this practice of strongly adhering to hairs and ignoring or moulding the rest of rehat as per our own convenience just over shadow the great principles for which our faith has always stood for. I tell you about that guy ( he was a 20 yr old boy) he was from a Hindu family but had spend most of time in Gurdwaras and reading Gurbani has astounding knowledge of Sikh History, he was a regular visitor to the Gurdwara which had organized that educational seminar, many people from Gurdwara advised him to become a Sikh as he has great love for our Gurus, but this rehat is something in which he is not brought up with and which bothers him a lot that is why he asked questions and wanted clarifications and even gave replies (which I have not posted because that discussion was too long) but in the end he could not find any relevance in any of the replies, the counter answers which he gave just made all of us speechless as I said


Let me give you a glance
These were some of the reasons given..Many Gyanis said to him betaji it is our rehat prescribed by Gurus. His answer was "Guruji also prescribes a total 100% prohibition of Caste Names, then why so many Sikhs still keep it and no one has problem with it?" You won't believe the Reply was exactly the same of what I am getting here e.g. a.)This is not a big deal b.)It is just for respecting the family in which you have been born c.)Hairs are more important for a Sikh
COUNTER he gave:: If family name carries so much weightage then why Guru Gobind Singhji changed his name from Gobind Rai to Gobind Singh and made Panj Pyaras Singh and if this is not a big deal why he did it at all? There must have been some thought process behind it, do Sikhs undermine such a great step by Guruji then?

Another Argument was, It is our Natural Form, we must be as nature made us and we must not tamper with nature. His reply was Simple: If it is natural Form then how come applying Chemicals on the face has been accepted? That means the urban Sikhs themselves find the natural Form unacceptable and waste their time in applying harmful Chemicals on face and beard just in order to look "good'.


Also Nihal Singhji, again you pounced on RSS for trying to dissolve Sikh identity, why don't you yourself take a note why Sikhs themselves keep the surnames and identify themselves with Castes/Races. I don't know why guys like you don't speak up on this.. who is dissolving the identity here?

I dont know why you think that a Sikh Keshdharis statements cant be judgmental towards other Sikhs , Being keshdhari and being judgmental are 2 totally different things , one doesn't preclude the other

[Edited: personal criticism]

Nihal
Romesh Kumar
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by Romesh Kumar »

Nihal Singh Kanakpuria wrote:Jasbeer Singh,

There was nothing wrong in that question asked by a young student (Why is he deemed knowledgeable by you on i am not sure) I am not surprised that other Sikh kids didn't know (i was raised in India as well (Mumbai) hence i am not surprised),

Early Education in India, Sikh or otherwise, does not focus on theology or answering of questions which require some religious retrospective thinking, Most students are content following the faith as understood by them and parents and kids from other religions seldom question with a intent to understand the other faith.(teasing and all is a different thing)

The RSS folks that i referred to are on this forum, i have been long enough on this forum to know posters who don't leave a chance to dissolve Sikh values , when posts like this come they jump on the bandwagon and get a chance to undermine Sikh articles of faith or Sikh Identity.

As to your judgmental statements about the paanth, No one has a right to judge how a individual Sikh adheres to their faith as long as those Sikhs don't go about preaching "or implying" that their way is the way of Sikhi i dont understand how it should concern you or anyone else for that matter.
- Nihal
There is no point in deviating from the topic under one excuse or another if we have run out of of words.
That is when we should rather be happy that we have learnt something positive from other learned Sikhs, which we did not know.
We should be thankful and grateful to the people who teach, advise and enlighten us, rather than tabling confusing, conflicting and misleading views.

Last but not least, 5Ks, believing in One God, Ten Guru Sahiban and SGGSJ is religious and socio-politico-legal identity, practice and belief of a Sikh in the context of multi-religion world. All other religions have their own based on their beliefs.
JasbeerSingh
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by JasbeerSingh »

I dont know why you think that a Sikh Keshdharis statements cant be judgmental towards other Sikhs , Being keshdhari and being judgmental are 2 totally different things , one doesn't preclude the other

[Edited: personal criticism]

Nihal
Nihal Singhji,

I am seriously searching for answers which I haven't got till now. Please help me out don't think that I am here to let my own community down. neither I am here to pass judgement, but my mind baffles me at the double standards which we take when following rehat, we follow some and we leave some, how can we explain it. And this becomes a major obstacle when we do prachaar
ADS
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by ADS »

Isn't it the socio/political/cultural identity which made hindus and muslims to conflict with each other during the time of Gurus. And today most of us sikhs are not different from others in that context.

Dear Jasbeer Singh,
The world is in illusion that one's identity is superior in some way than the other. There was a reason why Guru Gobind Singh ji advised all sikhs to follow rehat maryada (now became sikhs identity). And that reason was to remain spiritual, without falling in own ego, or come out of the trap of maya. "Sikhaan da mann neevaan, matt uchhi" If we remember & maintain these basics then it does not matter whether one keeps unshorn hairs, do clippings, monna.
A Sikh has to do more than just following the rehat maryada to become the true sikh of the Guru.

Same concept applies to other identities (i.e. hindus, muslims, budhists, christ..etc.).
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