Why is there confussion over eating meat?

[MONA_SIKH]

veer ji,
You are vegetarian by choice and I respect that. Infact this is the best gesture which every body appreciates. But you dont have to think hard, just look at those 'curry munchers' are they even some where near to where sikhs stand. There is this famous saying "You are what you eat" and if sikhs are different than no way they were strict vegetarians.
And gurbani have the power I agree. Gurbani has the power to:
1. Strenthen individual mentally.
2. Cure the diseases (like kaam, krodh, lobh, moh and ahankar)
3. Connect to the lord with no barricades.
4. Liberate.

But what in the world makes you think that bani has those worldly magical powers. And if you are refering to Baba Deep Singh ji than he was a true legend and will shine high in the sky. No one can match what Baba ji done.

[Varinder Singh]

I think its important to ask a very basic question - If you're serious about spirituality, is it ethical to eat meat?

Also found below:

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1) Page 467:
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"They (the truest of the true) burn away the bonds of the world, And eat a simple diet of grain and water."

In this passage, the Guruji says that people who are truly one with God/Waheguru eat only foods made from grain and water, implying that they eat only plants. If the Truest of the True people only eat plants, and not meat, then eating meat must be wrong.

2) Page 1377:
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"Kabir, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell."

This part of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib lists those things which will not bring you any closer to Waheguru. The marijuana refers to taking drugs, fish refers to eating meat, and wine refers to drinking alcohol. People who take illicit drugs, eat meat or drink alcohol will go to hell ( i.e., not merge with Waheguru and have to go through 84 lakh cycles of life and death).

3) Page 332:
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"You kill living beings and worship lifeless things, at your very last moment, You will suffer terrible pain."

The Guruji is saying that killing beings (humans or animals) will in the end not bring you any closer to Waheguru. By saying that if you kill living beings you will suffer terrible pain implies that your karma will be tainted, you will have to go through the life/death cycle and you will not be free from this physical world. Thus, eating meat is wrong (since an animal has to be killed).

4) Page 1350:
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"Do not say that the Vedas are false, false are those who do not reflect. If in all is one god, then why does one kill the hen?"

Sikhism says that Waheguru is in everything (in Kirtan Sohila, Sub Mei Joth, Joth hai Soi: "The light is in everything"; and in Japji Sahib, Hukma undher subko, bahar hukum na koi: "The command of Waheguru is in everything, there is no other command."). So, if Waheguru is in everything, if Waheguru loves every single little thing, why take its life away? Thus, killing even an inconsequential hen is wrong. So obviously, eating meat is wrong.

5) Page 723:
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"The world eats dead carcasses, living by neglect and greed. Like a goblin, or a beast, they kill and eat the forbidden carcasses of meat. So control your urges, or else the Lord wil throw you into hell."

Guruji quite bluntly states that eating of meat is forbidden. No matter if you think it "tastes" good or people "claim" it to be healthy (which in fact it is not) you need to control your urge to eat meat, or else you will end up in hell. The part of the worl that eats meat are just greedy, greedy for the so called taste, for the pleasure of taking something that is forbidden. These type of people neglect the real Truth of the world.

6) Page 898/899:
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"You are the treasure of mercy, O my Beloved Lord God. I cannot even describe Your many Glorious Virtues. The cat sees the meat, but does not eat it, and the great butcher throws away his knife; the Creator Lord God abides in the heart; the net holding the fish breaks apart."

In this passage the virtues of Waheguru are being extolled. The Guruji says that when Waheguru has you in his favor you will surely be saved. The cat won't eat a mouse/meat, a butcher won't kill animals, and nets holding fish will break, thus freeing the fish to live. This means that whatever Waheguru loves in this world, he will free it from pain. The catch is, Waheguru loves everything in the world, thus Waheguru wants to free everything from being needlessly killed or pained. When humans kill animals merely to eat, they are needlessly killing animals since humans do not need meat to survive. Thus, eating meat is wrong.

7) Page 1374:
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"Sayeth Kabir, that the best food is eating kichree (daal/lentils) where nectar sweet is the salt. You eat hunted meat, but which animal is willing to have their head cut?"

This is a very simple passage. Guruji is saying that eating a vegetarian diet is the best. The Guruji says that there is no animal that is going to be willing to give up its life, to be killed, just so a greedy human can eat its meat, which the human doesn't even need to survive.

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From these passages from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, I think it makes it quite blantantly obvious that the Guruji does not want his Sikhs to eat meat. If you are a real Sikh, and follow the Sri Guru Granth Sahib (if you don't follow the Sri Guru Granth Sahib then you're not a Sikh), then you must not eat meat.

Additionally, Bhai Gurdas Ji (nephew of Guru Amar Das ji) says in Var 31, pauree 9: "Just because the Guru has saved the butcher, That does not mean that we can kill animals and eat them."

[Sukhdeep_Singh]

veer ji,
You are vegetarian by choice and I respect that. Infact this is the best gesture which every body appreciates. But you dont have to think hard, just look at those 'curry munchers' are they even some where near to where sikhs stand. There is this famous saying "You are what you eat" and if sikhs are different than no way they were strict vegetarians.
And gurbani have the power I agree. Gurbani has the power to:
1. Strenthen individual mentally.
2. Cure the diseases (like kaam, krodh, lobh, moh and ahankar)
3. Connect to the lord with no barricades.
4. Liberate.

But what in the world makes you think that bani has those worldly magical powers. And if you are refering to Baba Deep Singh ji than he was a true legend and will shine high in the sky. No one can match what Baba ji done.

Im a vegetarian because my Guru says to be. Your right you are what you eat. Guru Sahib says those people who eat dead corpses ( animals ) treat their body like a grave ( burial ground). Why would we treat the blessed human body as a burial grave knowing that God resides in here, and in this the HUman Body one can reach God through Gurbani.

ਕੂੜੁ ਬੋਲਿ ਮੁਰਦਾਰੁ ਖਾਇ ॥.
Telling lies, they eat dead bodies.

also

ਲਬੁ ਕੁਤਾ ਕੂੜੁ ਚੂਹੜਾ ਠਗਿ ਖਾਧਾ ਮੁਰਦਾਰੁ ॥
Greed is a dog; falsehood is a filthy street-sweeper. Cheating is eating a rotting carcass.

ਪਰ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਪਰ ਮਲੁ ਮੁਖ ਸੁਧੀ ਅਗਨਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਚੰਡਾਲੁ ॥
Par ninḏā par mal mukẖ suḏẖī agan kroḏẖ cẖandāl.
Slandering others is putting the filth of others ( animals) into your own mouth. The fire of anger is the outcaste who burns dead bodies at the crematorium.


By the way Gurbani does have magical powers. If you were AmritDhari you would know this. WHen preparing Amrit, Panj Pyaarey place water in a bata ( bowl) At first this is just water, through the power of Gurbani this water transforms into Amrit which makes one immortal. This Amrit had the power to change Jackals into Lions how can you undermine Guru SAHIBS power and say that Guru Sahibs beloved Gursikhs needed meat to be warriors. You obviously are unfamiliar with Amrit and Amrit Sanchar process.

[MONA_SIKH]

No there is nothing like magic or such powers. The only true power is when guru jis singh's fought and died with honour. When the sword did the talking and when the enemies had no way out; this was the real magic which singh's did. All this despite being outnumbered this is the special power when ones cause of fight is superior than the other.

[Sukhdeep_Singh]

No there is nothing like magic or such powers. The only true power is when guru jis singh's fought and died with honour. When the sword did the talking and when the enemies had no way out; this was the real magic which singh's did. All this despite being outnumbered this is the special power when ones cause of fight is superior than the other.

If Amrit has no power then how does it give the power to free someone from the cycles of births and deaths.

If you insist meat gives one power then how do you explain the power of the Shaolin Monks who are strict vegetarians. These monks are some of the most fierce fighters ; they get all their power from CHI which is known as Praan in SIkhi and Vital Breath in English. The Chi exist in the Naab ( naval ) of people. For a Gurmukh Amrit Naam exist inside this area this is where they get their power.

ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਨਿਹਚਲੁ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਵਸੀਅਲੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੂਲੁ ਪਛਾਣਿ ਰਹੈ ॥
Ih man nihcẖal hirḏai vasī▫ale gurmukẖ mūl pacẖẖāṇ rahai.
When the mind becomes steady and stable, it abides in the heart, and then the Gurmukh realizes the root, the source of all.

ਨਾਭਿ ਪਵਨੁ ਘਰਿ ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਸੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਖੋਜਤ ਤਤੁ ਲਹੈ ॥

Nābẖ pavan gẖar āsaṇ baisai gurmukẖ kẖojaṯ ṯaṯ lahai.
The breath is seated in the home of the navel; the Gurmukh searches, and finds the essence of reality.

and

ਗਗਨ ਦਮਾਮਾ ਬਾਜਿਓ ਪਰਿਓ ਨੀਸਾਨੈ ਘਾਉ ॥
Gagan ḏamāmā bāji▫o pari▫o nīsānai gẖā▫o.
The battle-drum beats in the sky of the mind; aim is taken, and the wound is inflicted.

ਖੇਤੁ ਜੁ ਮਾਂਡਿਓ ਸੂਰਮਾ ਅਬ ਜੂਝਨ ਕੋ ਦਾਉ ॥੧॥
Kẖeṯ jo māʼndi▫o sūrmā ab jūjẖan ko ḏā▫o. ||1||
The spiritual warriors enter the field of battle; now is the time to fight! ||1||

My dear brother if you do not know the benefits of a Vegetarian diet or Amrit then I suggest you not mock this lifestyle of high spiritual health.

[Guest]

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh....

I am always shocked when I listen to this same misconception over and over again..... Are people really that ignorant and irrational that they can't apply logic to differ between good and bad....

Kutha or chatka does that make any differ at all.... ??? Flesh is still flesh.... Does chopping cow's head in one shot or just slaughtering it slowly differ in any way... ??? Is there some kind of magic trick in the way someone kills an animal which makes it as pure as an onion... ???
Flesh will remain flesh no matter how much you wash it or how much you cook it or how much you disinfect it or how you cut the animal.... Its still gonna do what flesh actually does to your system.....

Ques. Why Guru Gobind Singh Ji used "kutha" word in the Hukam... ??
Ans. At the time of our Gurus, no community other than Muslims used to eat/sell/cook meat.... Therefore there was no other name/word for meat other that "Kutha"(which is a arabic word)......

Maharaj Guru Gobind singh Ji only gave the Hukam that "tobacco" is not to be consumed.... So does that mean that cigarettes, Marijuana, Opium, Ghanja, Barbiturates or any other drug can be consumed by sikhs as long as its not tobacco... ??? C'mon!! Everyone is smart enough to know that each of the these drugs does quite the same things as tobacco do are the same... So no matter what drug you take its still gonna pollute you.... These drugs never existed at the time of Guru Gobind Singh..... All that was there was tobacco.....
So why differ in the way of cutting an animal... ???

Its the ones who are foolish and sinner who live in the greed and attachment to the taste that use Guru Gobind Singh's Hukam as a excuse to eat meat and not be called sinner.....

Guru Nanak Sahib had already made it clear to not to eat meat when he created sikh dharm.... The proof is in Japji sahib.... Guru Nanak sahib tells the kind of paaps/sins that his followers must not commit....

Countless fools, blinded by ignorance.
asaNkh moorakh anDh ghor.

Countless thieves and embezzlers.
asaNkh chor haraamkhor.

Countless impose their will by force.
asaNkh amar kar jaahi jor.

Countless cut-throats and ruthless killers.
asaNkh galvadh hati-aa kamaahi.

Countless sinners who keep on sinning.
asaNkh paapee paap kar jaahi.

Countless liars, wandering lost in their lies.
asaNkh koorhi-aar koorhay firaahi.

Countless wretches, eating filth as their ration.
asaNkh malaychh mal bhakh khaahi.

Countless slanderers, carrying the weight of their stupid mistakes on their heads.
asaNkh nindak sir karahi bhaar.

Nanak describes the state of the lowly.
naanak neech kahai veechaar.

I cannot even once be a sacrifice to You.
vaari-aa na jaavaa ayk vaar.

Whatever pleases You is the only good done,
jo tuDh bhaavai saa-ee bhalee kaar.

You, Eternal and Formless One. ||18||
too sadaa salaamat nirankaar. ||18||

So All I can do is tell.... Rest is upto everyone's own will.... But all I ask for is not to pollute the religion by saying Our Guru Gobind Singh Sahib allowed to eat meat.... Do not disgrace our own guru....

[rubinder kaur]

sat sri akal to all
my opinion on this issue is that guru ji has used a general term "halal" for meat . sikhs r forbidden frm eating meat. its not that we r forbidden frm eating halal meat only. likewise the term " hukkah" is used by guru ji which is a term in general for smoking. it doesn't mean that we sikhs can smoke ciggaretts or thru other means but only hukkah is not allowed. these r general terms used by guru ji & we need to know their meanings in depth. the other reason for not eating non veg is the guruji said that this human body is the house of almighty waheguru ji. so we need to keep it pure . moreover meditating on god requires clean , pure mind so that baani can help us to its optimum by concentration.
i'm not trying to force my views on anyone.
waheguruji ka khalsa
waheguruji ki fateh.

[KamaljitSingh]

Had never thought on these lines.Thanks Rubinder Kaur ji for sharing your views.

[Lee Douglas]

Heheh this always happens with this topic.

To ansewer the oringinal questions though.

There is confussion because all scripture is open to individual and perosnal interpretation, this is where religous scisms happen, when the dogma becomes more important in the mind than the destination.

Meh! I don't see why our Sikh should be immune to the thoughts, feelings, and diferant interpretaions of differing indivuduals. It is just one of those things.

[Dr.Kaur]

I have a question which is different from this one but some how related -
“farida meri kath ki lavan meri bhukh jina khadi chopri ghane sehan gai dukh.” (28)
rukhi sukhi khaey kai thunda pani pio.”' is bani of Baba Farid sahib in Guru Granth Sahib, so should we not apply butter or ghee to our roties, paranthas or eat only boiled vegetables without ghee???
This question is an answer in itself, we all are manipulating Gurbani to prove our points here I think, Guru nanak dev ji said those all who are fighting over meat topic are foolish, sorry but it is in gurbani dear sangat ji, every one should read that sakhi where a Raja gifts Guru nanak dev ji a dead deer and Guru nanak dev ji start cooking it during a famous mela and all pandits start accusing babaji of being a bad person as he eats meat.
Bhul Chuk maaf karni