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Chairs in Diwan Hall..!!!

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Re: Chairs in Diwan Hall..!!!

Postby vikramjit gurufateh singh on Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:41 pm

Fateh Ji,

In case they have a medical condition that prevents them from sitting on the ground then they can sit on benches. I think Gurudwaras should avoid placing chairs in the Diwan Hall.

Some people do tend to misuse this facility.

I would request all to also read my post ' my two blunders'.

Guru Rakha
kabeer kookar ram ko mutheea maero nao ||
Kabeer, I am the Lord's dog; Moti is my name.
galae hamarae jaevaree jeh khinchai theh jao ||74||
There is a chain around my neck; wherever I am pulled, I go. ||74||
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Re: Chairs in Diwan Hall..!!!

Postby lakwinder singh on Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:28 pm

I go often to that Gurudwara.I never saw chairs in Diwan hall and that too in front of SGGS ji.
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Re: Chairs in Diwan Hall..!!!

Postby AM on Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:33 am

I think it would be sad to restrict entry to only those able to sit on the floor. There are many medical reasons that would inhibit someone from being able to sit for long/short periods. Back issues, legs, knees, pregnancy, circulation, age, injury etc.
I personally think it is more important that the individual is keen to sit whether on a chair or floor and listen to shabad, bani and kirtan. Surely that is the priority.
As for eating langar while on tables and chairs well this is another thing I think has lost its meaning. The essence of langar is to share with everyone particularly of course those in need. Does it really matter that they sit on the floor, stand or sit on a chair regardless of medical/physical condition. They are all eating from the same pot which in essence is what langar is about to me.
Personally I go to gurdwara to listen to bani, listen to kirtan, share with the community and partake in langar. How I stand, sit etc is irrelavant to me. The way I see it as long as I am not being rude or loud then it really doesn't take away from my experience at gurdwara and likewise should not affect anyone else around me either. Their attention after all should be focussed the same as mine, on bani and rightly so.

Personally I don't even see the need for there to be a ladies and mens side. Seems to go against the very thing our faith proclaims, equality between all. I have often been keen particularly where its a paath particularly for a departed relative or a paath to celebrate a family event, to sit with my dad, grandad, uncles etc to enjoy the reading and share the event with them together. Instead we are told we have to sit all the way across the room. This is one aspect I just don't get and admittedly its difficult to explain the logic of it to my children.
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Re: Chairs in Diwan Hall..!!!

Postby Kuldip S. Virdi on Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:05 am

Lakhwinder Singh Jee
I invite you to any major Singh Sabha Gurudwara in Delhi or Mumbai to see for yourself chairs and benches at the end wall of the diwan hall or near the side wall. I can name Greater Kailash Gurudwara Pahdiwala and Vika Puri Gurudwara in Delhi and Singh Sabha Gurudwara in Vashi, Navi Mumbai as examples, where I have seen these chairs/ benches/ moodas.

Guru fateh.

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Re: Chairs in Diwan Hall..!!!

Postby Lost ID on Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:27 am

wkwf,
Veer Lakhwinder singh Ji & sister PCJ ji, it's weird that you never noticed those chairs, may be because those chairs are on all the way back to ladies...
& Sister PCJ ji ..i feel sorry for that guy too. But beside feeling sorry what else we can do or do you have any plans???

& I didn't say that those chairs are permanent.

& only a few old ladies sit on them...

sorry if i confused anyone.
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Re: Chairs in Diwan Hall..!!!

Postby Lins on Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:17 am

My elderly father has Parkinson's Disease and can only walk with difficulty. There is no way he can sit on the floor as his body cannot sustain the position and it would also take two people to get him up again. These people are as much, if not more in need of the Sangat than the healthy.

Did you know that when Christianity first began everyone sat on the floor, but it was realised that the sick and elderly and sometimes pregnant women were often unable to do this and in pain so unable to attend and listen to God's teachings, so seats were provided for them around the walls. Yes today everyone has a seat, however the sacred items are not only in a raised area of the church, but on a raised alter above the seated congregation.

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Re: Chairs in Diwan Hall..!!!

Postby lakwinder singh on Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:28 pm

Kuldip singh ji

THose with physical disability is a different case.I have been to DaDar singh sbaha Gurudwara in 1970s.I did not see any chair there.In 1970s as far as i remember there was no gurudwara in Vashi.

In western countires especially in Canada people were putting lame excuses for putting chairs such as their clothes get wrinkled while seated on floor.That is very silly excuse.

What i saw in Fremont Gurudwara were a few low stools and not chairs behind where women are seated.
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Re: Chairs in Diwan Hall..!!!

Postby Kuldip S. Virdi on Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:55 am

Lakwinder Singh Jee,
I am afraid, 70s were nearly forty years ago. I have been regular visitor Vashi Gurudwara in Sector 9A just behind ST Bus Terminus since 1995 and it has a magnificant building since then. It was in a little less modest shed like structure at the same place till about 1995. The chairs and moodas are recent phenomena there as proabably some memebers of the snagat have grown older and are suffering from medical problems and are provided with seating more convenient to them on the side wall near the end of the darwar hall. It is prominently visible on the ladies side on Sunday and chairs are not permanent. They are plastic moulded ones and number increases/ decreases depending on the need of concerned people. I will check out Dadar some time and report. But then as I said, things are a changing in last many years.

Guru Fateh.

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Re: Chairs in Diwan Hall..!!!

Postby drdln on Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:34 pm

Older people find it hard to sit on the floor for 2-3 hours and some have
stopped coming to Gurudwaras.

Sitting on chairs should be allowed and guilt trip should be avoided.
Guru and God are higher than any chair balcony or second floor.
If Sangat can sit in balcony in HARMANDIR SAHIB, THEY CAN SIT-------.

I, as a young student at Yale University , have attended congregation with chairs in New York . Many famous scholars had agreed with this practice for the west. Dharmik Sulaakaar Committee on 25 April 1935, comprising of: Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha, Prof. Jodh Singh, Prof. Teja Singh, Prof. Ganda Singh, Jathedar Mohan Singh passed the following resolution: “In Europe or America, where it is a standard practice to sit on chairs in religious places - there is no harm in sitting on chairs in Gurdwaras, provided that Guru Granth Sahib is placed at a higher elevation.”
More at: http://acsagurdwara.org/universal_sbulletin.html
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Re: Chairs in Diwan Hall..!!!

Postby lakwinder singh on Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:52 pm

keeping a few chairs for medical reasons is one thing but advocating chairs in diwan hall is another.Yes there were chairs in Diwan hall in New York when immigrant sikhs arrived in 1960s and aped western traditions out of ignorance.

The chairs have been lifted and are not going to come back.Sikhism is a religion of sangat and pangat.
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