Anand kaaraj

[navreet kaur]

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh
I am assuming that in the process of Anand kaaraj, the couple circles around the SGGS ji , is taken from the Hindu vivah vidhi around the fire. A few changes have been make in sikh weddings- no more brothers around to take the bride around the circle, no face covering (ghund) as the woman are not children when they get married these days and they can do the whole process by themselves. I am still wondering why the woman has to walk behind the man? if this was just the idea that man had more power or physical or financial strength than woman in olden days, so he walked infront to symbolise his leadership, i think it is time to change. woman are equal partners in every walk of life or man and woman are complimentary to each other.. not bigger or smaller than one another.They should walk together to seek Guru's blessings for the future. Sikhi is the first religion in India to have allowed woman freedom and equality, why sybolise inequality in the holy matrimony???
Bhul chuk maaf
Waheguru

[shailenderkumar]

Dear Anand kaaraj ji,

As far as I think it's not about power that man comes first to take blessing of Guru Ji. In our Indian tradition wife always give repect to husband and consider him superior so I feel this is about respect that wife give to husband, there is no equality issue at all.

[kjsinghhyd]

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh ji

in the process of Anand kaaraj, the couple circles around the SGGS ji , is taken from the Hindu vivah vidhi around the fire.

The whole 'process' of Anand Karaj means that you consider your soul and your spouse's soul as one. And you present it to Guru for Union with God. But we are more concerned with what we are doing physically in Gurudwara. Our mind is not in control to meet Lord. Hindu's go around fire because they believe it to be a medium to worship deities. We go around Guru Granth Sahib because for us Guru Sahib is the only Medium to meet God.

A few changes have been make in sikh weddings- no more brothers around to take the bride around the circle, no face covering (ghund) as the woman are not children when they get married these days and they can do the whole process by themselves.

Yes having a brother help you go ahead with your spouse at every turn surely made it a bit dramatic. Women are independent. And earlier women (and men with sehra) covered their face. It was because till marriage ceremony wasn't done, they wouldn't like to 'show' their face. But it is inappropriate to do it in front of Guru.

I am still wondering why the woman has to walk behind the man? if this was just the idea that man had more power or physical or financial strength than woman in olden days, so he walked infront to symbolise his leadership, i think it is time to change.

When travelling through a jungle or strange lands, man would always walk ahead, so that if someone attacks, he should take the brunt and save his wife (and children). It is all about how you look at things. And the maryada is fixed. Our maryada is totally equal in nature. No need to change things.

They should walk together to seek Guru's blessings for the future. Sikhi is the first religion in India to have allowed woman freedom and equality, why sybolise inequality in the holy matrimony???

They walk together. It is not as if he is ahead, he gets blessings first or more blessings. If you wish to get blessings, your mind should be 100% connected with Guru and Shabads being sung. You shouldn't care if your husband is going ahead. He is walking before YOU. That is pure Ego.

[navreet kaur]

shailenderkumar » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:08 pm

Dear Shailender ji
are you trying to say that its the soul duty of woman to respect the man but she doesnot deserve respect???

[navreet kaur]

kjsinghhy ji
Do you think a woman would do any less if something happens to her husband or kids? Are you trying to say that only man has the physical strength, wisdom or courage to save the family and that is why the man is infront of the woman in Anand Kaaraj?
If so , it does symbolise man's leadership to woman and that is unacceptable.
When you said, maryada is fixed, what are you trying to say? is there a written document to follow for Holy matrimony?

And if this is not an ego thing, would men consider to walk behind the woman for blessings?

I wonder if we have the courage to see the woman as equals... there are certainly things that both can do and things that men can do better than woman and vice versa. We are complimentary to each other. so why not stand together .
Bhul chuk maaf

[AS Khalsa]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
First of all ShailenderKumar Ji, the principles of Sikhi, equality of all people etc. were a reaction to that very same culture you speak of as giving the most respect to the husband. And does the wife not deserve equal respect back?

Sorry to say Bhenji Navreet Kaur, but I don't think this issue of Anand Karaj where the groom walks ahead is anything to do with gender inequality. You shouldn't care if your husband is walking in front of you - thats slightly egoistic and a bit sensitive of you to do so. I mean they're still walking together, its not as if he gets extra blessings from God or anything. If the bridegroom walking in front is symbolic of anything, then its symbolic of the fact that the man is prepared to defend his wife and his family. Lots of women are fine demanding that men don't open doors for them, let them through first, stating that women can be as physcially strong as men, demanding what they percieve as necessary rights for their gender, etc. but when they get attacked on the street and are incapable of defending themselves because their attacker is a 6 foot 4 thug... then they aren't so keen on the issue of women being as capable of defending themselves as men. You cannot disagree with me on that point, because the statistics clearly back me up. Its the reality of life, that women are not as physically strong as men. In every other respectt, yes they are as strong as men, but not physically. Bhenji I'm not saying men do not rely on women. Women rely on men to protect their honour, men rely on women to uplift, inspire and support them through all hardship.

But this issue of where to stand, what to do etc is really quite childish. Do you want the bride to now start walking ahead? That will flare up this issue of 'gender inequality' amongst men. Do you want the bride to sit on one side, and the groom to sit to her left? Again men and women will moan, oh why do I have to sit on this side or that side, because the right side means I am subservient etc? Then they decide they want to walk beside each other instead, but some ultra-feminist will come along and out of thin air come up with the argument, because the man is standing closer to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji it means to say that he directs his wife to knowledge of Gurbani. Then the couple decide that instead of standing in front, behind or on either side, they should stand in the same spot, and the groom will give a piggyback ride to his wife. Then someone will come along and say, why does the man piggyback the woman, it should be other way round... See where I'm going Bhenji? No matter what changes you make to the system there will always be someone to moan about something, which is not in any way symbolic of one gender's superiority, it is just physical coincidence.

The fact that the bride walks behind the groom is simply a coincidence. Lets not try and change it by putting groom in front etc because then tensions would flare up in the other gender.

You also replied to kjsinghhhy Ji, and if this is not an ego thing, would men consider to walk behind the woman for blessing? If this is not an ego thing, why can't you just accept that this is what happens in the Anand Karaj. Its all very hypocritical to say men are egoistic for wanting to walk in front, but if you weren't being egoistic then you would have no problem in walking behind, because you know that in Sikhi, women are equal to men in every respect, its just that someone has to walk behind the other.

And you also asked:' when you said Maryadda is fixed, what are you trying to say. is there a written document to follow for holy matrimony.' Yes... It comes from Akal Takht, the Guru-ordained worldly authority for Sikhs all over the world.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

[shailenderkumar]

shailenderkumar » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:08 pm

Dear Shailender ji
are you trying to say that its the soul duty of woman to respect the man but she doesnot deserve respect???

Navreet Kaur Ji

I never say that wife doesn't deserve respect. It's just a vidhi where husband goes first and wife follow him. The idea behind this vidhi is that whatever situation comes in their married life husband is the "Mukhiya" so he has to face everything first and wife will support him. This vidhi is many years old and we can't change it now.

By following this vidhi you can't judge that one person is giving respect but other is not. You really got to know about respect when you start living your married together with each other, only then you can judge better.

[kjsinghhyd]

Do you think a woman would do any less if something happens to her husband or kids? Are you trying to say that only man has the physical strength, wisdom or courage to save the family and that is why the man is infront of the woman in Anand Kaaraj?

The same way if you just associate men with wisdom, courage and nothing else, then MEN will not like it either. It is like send the men to war, but let women stay coz kids can't do without their mothers. How to please and convince both parties?

If so , it does symbolise man's leadership to woman and that is unacceptable.

That is what I am saying, it DOESN'T SYMBOLIZE anything. It is just an instruction to walk in queue. Someone has to go ahead.

When you said, maryada is fixed, what are you trying to say? is there a written document to follow for Holy matrimony?

Yes it has been written in the Rehit Maryada.

And if this is not an ego thing, would men consider to walk behind the woman for blessings?

I think mostly the groom comes and sit first. Then he has to 'wait' for the bride to arrive. Do men start complaining about that?

I wonder if we have the courage to see the woman as equals... there are certainly things that both can do and things that men can do better than woman and vice versa. We are complimentary to each other. so why not stand together.

We have to see all as equal. It is not a man-woman thing. Or Indian-American thing. Or urban-rural thing. All are equal.

Even if man and woman go together, then some years down the line, women will ask why don't they get to walk on right side? People could ask why do we go clockwise? There is no end to it. Yes if someone doesn't celebrate the birth of girl child in the family, I won't tolerate that either. Idea is to focus on 'real' issues.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fateh ji

[icedragon]

when titanic sunk. Out of all the passagers saved 80 percnt of them were women and children. All the men on the ship including all the crew members decided that women and children should be putt first of the life boats. so i totally agree with kjsinghhyd's view. morever i dont understand why women want to do roles which traditionally men have been doing for generations and centuries. Men have more physical strength then women and hence they are able to do certain things better then women .Thats how nature has intended it there should not really be any question of inequality there.
'[quote="kjsinghhyd"]Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh ji





When travelling through a jungle or strange lands, man would always walk ahead, so that if someone attacks, he should take the brunt and save his wife (and children). It is all about how you look at things. And the maryada is fixed. Our maryada is totally equal in nature. No need to change things.

[Punjabi G]

Please read this related thread to your question.

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