English Translation - New required - A Thought

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deepharn
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English Translation - New required - A Thought

Post by deepharn »

First, some observation and then a thought, please.

Observation
In my interaction with young and old, indian and western, sikhs and non-sikhs, inreasingly feel the need for a good english translation of SGGS JI. For our children as well as for telling rest of the world what the message of Guru Nanak is.

We have two lovely translations of Japji by Bhai Guruka Singh and Bibi Ek Ong Kaar kaur Khalsa of american sikh heritage. They both being native english speakers, the translation is rich and reads well.

Some more baanis are available in Lagoon Gutka of American sikhs.

We have marbled and AC Gurudwaras but dont have suitable communication policy of the message - no standard english translation of SGGs JI.


Thought
Why cannot the sikhs have a standard english translation of SGGS Ji by a Committee/group of sikhs, some with thorough knowledge of Punjabi, Hindi, Urdu and English. native english speakers should be associated with this Commitee/Group.

The issues can be -
a) where will this commitee/Group be housed.
b) How much will be the time limit given to this group/Commitee.
c)Who will finance this group/Commitee
d) should it be a full time commitee/Group with a stipulated or even a tentative time frame?
e) should the inititaive come from American sikhs, SGPC, Delhi Gurudwara management Commitee, Sikh Organizations located in the US, UK, Australia?
f) Should the Group/ Committee be made of old retired people or young and working. Suitable compensation would have to be considered depending on the age and status of individuals in the Commiteee.


Any thoughts, suggestions, guidance on this, please?
swarn bains
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Re: English Translation - New required - A Thought

Post by swarn bains »

my name is swarn singh bains. I have translated siree guru granth sahin in simple english. It is understood by any english speaking or knowing person. it meets the needs of today's devotees whoever want to follow the teachings of siree guru granth sahib. Very simple english translation of japu jee sahib in it as well. you will be surprised to see it . i can send u a copy of japujee by e mail if u wish. reply my email [email protected]
Kuldip S. Virdi
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Re: English Translation - New required - A Thought

Post by Kuldip S. Virdi »

Please visit the following website for information on the English Translation of the SGGS.

http://www.sikhs.org/english/frame.html

You may also visit the website of the Singh Brothers, Publishers and Booksellers, Amritsar for various hardbound translations already available.

Various independent scholars and committees under the aegis of SGPC have undertaken English Translation and are available. Please study them and then take a call whether another translation as envisaged by you is required in the near future. If yes, go ahead and commission the requisite scholars to do so.

Guru Fateh,

Kuldip S. Virdi
deepharn
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Re: English Translation - New required - A Thought

Post by deepharn »

This is in response to Virdi and Bains Ji.

Fortunately, I had the privilege to read and refer to all the standard and popular english translations of SGGS JI, except that of Bains Ji. I, and all of my friends with whon=m we discussed found these wanting.

We are convinced that translating Gurbani into English, composed by six Gurus, 15 bhagats, 4 sikhs and 11 Bhatts is not a joke and is not possible by a single sikh in one life span at least.

Also, translation in English - Shakespeare and thomas hardy, had they been born in India, could not have written that language with that ease. Neither Bhai veer singh, had been born in England could have written in Punjabi with that fluency.

If we have to write for English audience, we will need help of natives - fortunately we have english born sikhs, american sikhs. This is not going to be a professor of english job, it needs few sikhs to translate - sikhs chissled for the job. Therefore, my suggestion of a Group of sikhs with proficiency in different languages.

While, it is good to have marbled and gold plated Gurudwaras and Palangs for Parkash and sukhasan, we also need to have the best possible translation of SGGS Ji to communicate with non-punjabi visitors and devotees. To tell the world about the treasure house that we have to share in SGGS Ji.

How to do it is a difficult question.
To accomplish this task, one way of doing it could be to set up a group of experts in different languages, bear their annual costs, provide them their existing salaries and wages, and put them together to produce an agreed english translation in a stipulated period of time. Their daily output should be available on internet for select Gursikhs, including those who have made pecuniary contribution for the project, to see and make suggestions. Gradually, when this work is complete, it will be avaialble to all the community.

To bear the annual costs, depending on the composition of the group, their age profile, some of us well placed sikhs in India and abroad can contribute their daswand - make an initial corpus fund, deposit it and promise/commit for monthly instalments. These contributing sikhs should have a say in the composition of the Group and then access to daily output of the Group.

The Group should be professionally run, managed by an appointed leader and work professionally, five days a week. This group can consist of native english speakers, preferably from American sikhs heritage, who have sound knowledge of sikhi, and other language experts in punjabi, hindi, urdu, sanskrit, and pharsi experts - preferably sikhs.

This group may be housed together in a convenient location - Amritsar (SGPC), Delhi (DSGM), or Espanola (HQ of american sikhs)

The lead is this venture can be taken by private individuals or entrusted to a sikh Association in India or abroad or a sikh body.

How we do it needs to be discussed but definely there is need to think on these lines and produce some results in stipulated time.

Thanks
chakvi
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Re: English Translation - New required - A Thought

Post by chakvi »

There's a translation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee by Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa, who's an English speaker from the US. To be honest, I think that more important than making more English translations (the ones we have now are not perfect, but then again, they never will be), is to translate Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee into other languages, preferably directly from the original language of Gurbani.
deepharn
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Re: English Translation - New required - A Thought

Post by deepharn »

This is in response to Chakvi ji.

You have a great idea of translating SGGS Ji in other languages? Which Langauges do you have in mind? Any suggestion or game plan as to how to achieve this? Should the responsibility be again assigned to one persopn or a group? Who will finance and provide ligistic support. Will the Panth accept the labour of this group or one individual? Is any one individual capable of understanding and then translating compositions of 6 gurus, 15 bhagats, 4 sikhs and 11 bhats - whose life time spans a few hundred years?

If you are referring to indian Languages, then translating from original punjabi is somewhat easier from original.

If you are referring to other langauges in the world - russian, japanese, german, french, chinese, spanish, african languages, then the only (viable) alternative to my mind is to have a good english translation, the best we can have, given our present capabilities.

As english is the most widely and popularly spoken langauge amongst the literate/learned community, let us first attempt that before we dilute our idea and energy in spreading ourselves too thin and ending up achieving nothing. For any good great idea to materialize, one small step has to be taken, a small foundation has to be laid before the big idea finally shows all its shape.

By the way, you might be aware, as of now, even Japji has not been translated into many other languages, what to talk of whole of SGGS ji.

Thanks.
swarn bains
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Re: English Translation - New required - A Thought

Post by swarn bains »

deepharn jee s s a. I am swarn singh bains. As you have read all the translations of previous scholars. So you know all well. would you mind if i send my translation of sggs to you but one condition, ei; you have to give me your honest opinion. give me your e mail. my email [email protected]. I will send you my translation. s s a
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Theodorus
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Re: English Translation - New required - A Thought

Post by Theodorus »

WJKK, WJKF

Being a native Dutchman I'm trying to translate Japji Sahib in Dutch (starting small). As I cannot read the original I have looked and found about 10 english translations to work from. This gives me quite a good idea on what is written so I should be able to make a readable translation....but.....

1. I found out that most of the english translations contain a lot of explenations in the texts itself. This makes it quite 'un recitable' and about twice as long to recite. If I translate this in dutch it becomes even longer and very awkward.
2. When I 'loose' all the explenations and sometimes use the 'original' punjabi word I need to know what it means when reading / reciting. I add the explenations in footnotes to keep it readable.

So there is basically my dilemma: Write a dutch version that every dutchman can read and understand or write a dutch version that is reciteble but needs some 'inside knowledge' to understand.

As I've opted for the second possibility (readable with footnotes and recitable) I'm now trying to find out the 'original' words with the help of a punjabi speaking friend and a dictionary in order to loose the added explenation in the english versions.

And then still I can ponder and work hours on a single sentence finish it and ending up changing it again next day. I'm not a professional translator but this is realy realy difficult to even get somewhat right.

So this will realy be a team effort in which I think the internet can realy help.......

Ever heard of: http://www.sikher.com/
deepharn
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Re: English Translation - New required - A Thought

Post by deepharn »

This is in response to Bains Ji and Theodorus Ji.

Theodorus Ji, It is a herculan task to try to translate any Bani from original to another language. My suggestion to you would be - a) to seek help from Guruka Singh and Ek Ong Kaar Kaur, both of whom are available on sikhnet website, and easy to contact. b) Whate evr you translate put it on the discussion forum so that we can all give our two-bits of comments to enrich your effort.

Bains Ji, thanks for your kindness and thoughts. I am convinced, be it any one, Dr. Gopal Singh, Manmohan singh, Chahil. darshan singh, etc etc. or your self, this endeavour is so difficult, given the magnitude and dimesnsion of the task, to be handled by any one person in any one life span. Therefore, my proposal for a Group or Committee. On your request that I should see your work and comment, my humble opinion is that - who am I to pass a judgement. The whole community would have to approve and accept it as better than others. So, please place it on the website, or bani by bani on this forum, and we will all submit our views on your effort.

Thanks
swarn bains
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Re: English Translation - New required - A Thought

Post by swarn bains »

here is another one for chakvi. if you believe it stick to it. the translation of sggs by sant singh khalsa page 1106
look at it if Nanak wants you to know this way.
Translation by Sant Singh Khalsa page 1106Edit
Raag Maaroo, The Word Of Jai Dayv Jee:
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

The breath is drawn in through the left nostril; it is held in the central channel of the Sukhmanaa, and exhaled through the right nostril, repeating the Lord's Name sixteen times.

I am powerless; my power has been broken. My unstable mind has been stabilized, and my unadorned soul has been adorned. I drink in the Ambrosial Nectar. ||1||

Within my mind, I chant the Name of the Primal Lord God, the Source of virtue.

My vision, that You are I are separate, has melted away. ||1||Pause||

I worship the One who is worthy of being worshipped. I trust the One who is worthy of being trusted. Like water merging in water, I merge in the Lord.

Says Jai Dayv, I meditate and contemplate the Luminous, Triumphant Lord. I am lovingly absorbed in the Nirvaanaa of God. ||2||1||
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