Is Giving " Panj Paira Prasad" to Women such a Heresy

[Windsorsikh2010]

Doctor at centre of Sikh temple controversy in Ontario

Appeared in Medical Post Journal - Aug 17 : 2010

by Ron Stang

WINDSOR, Ont. | A well-known internist here is embroiled in a controversy that has inflamed passions among
two sets of congregants in the city’s large, lone Sikh temple. Dr. Sukhdev Singh Kooner has long played a significant
role in fundraising for, building and administering the temple. But he is now the object of criticism and even threats by
an opposing faction within the Gurdwara Khalsa Parkash here. Both sides, however, blame the other for the acrimony as
each claims sizable numbers of supporters from the more than 1,000 congregants. New board members

The controversy erupted after a new executive board was chosen late last year. According to Dr. Kooner, the old board, of which he was a member, was simply tired from serving 16 years and wanted new people to take their place. “We gave them the congratulations that we will be helping you anywhere you need our help,” he said. But things quickly turned
sour. Dr. Kooner said the new executive members, who faced no challengers for the positions, had an agenda to make
fundamental changes in how the temple operated, including religious practices.
“We didn’t know that these people (had) something else in mind,” he said. Chief among his accusations
is that the group is breaking traditional practices. “They try to create a situation where the people forget their original
code of conduct and they become modernized” against tradition “prescribed by the gurus.”
An example is the serving of sweet pudding before the end of the service. Traditionally this is only given
to a small group of males representing the “beloved ones” who founded the faith. Now women receive it. The new
group has also installed chairs where previously people sat on the floor. Harjinder Singh Kandola, the secretary for the new committee, said there’s no question the committee wants to update the temple to make it more relevant, especially to young people. “That was our main agenda,” he said. “We want the overall focus on community development and especially to connect our future generation . . . to Sikh heritage and to Canadian values.” Kandola described
Dr. Kooner’s way of thinking as “very orthodox,” which “he enforces on the others.” He said that once Dr.
Kooner saw the direction the new committee was taking, he tried to reassert his power by having the new committee answer to him and an advisory group. “That was not acceptable to the congregation,” Kandola said.
Since that time there have been alleged threats from both sides—including one to cut off Dr. Kooner’s head—and the
new committee has had to issue trespass notices to a handful of congregants. It also installed closed-circuit cameras.
Religious services have been disrupted, one new committee member said he was assaulted and another alleged bullets
were fired at his home. Police have laid no charges.

[jsingh7]

waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh.

if your post is meant to ask if giving "Panj Piara da Prasad" to women is wrong, then my answer is yes. Guru ji created this maryada and it has been followed and respected ever since. If we change the maryada what does that classify us as? To me it shows someone who believes they are higher then guru ji, smarter than guru ji...who are we to even think that?
For someone to break maryada that had been created by who we pray to, what does that show? To me it shows; disrespectful behaviour and a person who believes he/she is higher than guru ji, and that is wrong.

I know some modern women say "we should have equal right",well in the Guru Granth Sahib and back in the Guru's times, all women were given respect. We have great examples; Mata Gujari, Mata Sundri and many other female fighters. The reason for this maryada is that when guru ji asked for five heads, out of the whole sangat only five men stood up. If women had shown up then the prasad would have been to women. But men stood up, so that's who recieved the right. This is maryada, not something small that you can change. If we change maryada, how do we consider ourselves sikh?

If i hurt anyones feelings, im sorry this is just my opinion.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh.

[Windsorsikh2010]

Jsingh7 ji

We sikhs are to follow the teachings of Guru Granth sahib ji ( not History- for which we often use the word "Maryada").
Can you support your case with Gurbani from SGGS.

Love and Open mind to all

[Harbhajan S. Sangha]

The following is for your kind information and consideration:

Sikh Reht Maryada (The Code of Sikh conduct and conventions)

CHAPTER XIII - Article XXIV
b. At the place where ambrosial baptism is to be administered, the holy Guru Granth Sahib should be installed and ceremonially opened. Also present should be six committed baptised Sikhs, one of whom should sit in attendance of the Guru Granth Sahib and the other five should be there to administer the ambrosial baptism. These six may even include Sikh women. All of them must have taken bath and washed their hair

source: http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/section_six.html

　
Karhah Prashad (Sacred Pudding)
Chapter VIII - Article XII

c. After this, before the distribution to the congregation of the Karhah Prashad, the share of the five beloved ones should be set apart and given away. Thereafter, while commencing the general distribution, the share of the person in attendance of the Guru Granth Sahib (Giving double share to the person in attendance constitutes improper discrimination) should be put in small bowl or vessel and handed over. The person who doles out the Karhah Prashad among the congregation should do so without any discrimination on the basis of personal regard or spite. He should dole out the Karhah Parshad equally to the Sikh, the non-Sikh or a person of high or low caste. While doling out the Karhah Prashad, no discrimination should be made on considerations of caste or ancestry or being regarded, by some, as untouchable, of persons within the congregation.

source: http://www.sgpc.net/rehat_maryada/secti ... eight.html

Furthermore, a while back Akal Takht had issued advise that suitable arrangements should be made to accommodate all 'physically-challenged" sangat within a Gurdwara!

May I suggest that those in doubt of the above matters should write directly to the Akal Takht for confirmation !

( 1) The Role of Women in Sikhism
link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8XNp-Y6gOg

( 2 )Strength of Women
link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-rGfjybBVE

[PrabhdeepSingh]

Jsingh7 ji

We sikhs are to follow the teachings of Guru Granth sahib ji ( not History- for which we often use the word "Maryada").
Can you support your case with Gurbani from SGGS.

Love and Open mind to all

The practice of giving prasad to Five Singhs is an important record of our history. When I first witnessed it, I found it odd that some men should get food before others if we are all equal. The Five Singhs are given more respect than the rest of congregation. Why should that happen? It should happen because the Panj Pyare have a special place in our history. This practice allows us to stay in touch with that history. We should not make it into a symbol of unfairness or disrespect to women. It may seem like that to the outsiders but we know better. I question the motivations of people who are promoting a deviation from this practice. I think there are many ways to promote equality of women in Sikh practices but changing this practice is not one of them.

[Windsorsikh2010]

Prabhddep Singh ji

Sikhism is a path that is different from all that existed in the history before it came.
It was meant to be a new trail for the huamanity to reach new heights.

Why do we still want to stay in history insted of creating a future ? History will only keep you where you were, how about the future that we must make taking guidance from Gurbani.

I am most interested in if you can support your case with Gurbani.
I have heard enough about history ( HIS STORY).

Moderator comment: Very interesting! Hearsay must be HER-SAY?

[Bundha]

I am most interested in if you can support your case with Gurbani.
I have heard enough about history ( HIS STORY).

I take it from this that since the panj piaray are not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji you do not beleive in them.
What about the panj kakkar, they are not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, I take it you do not believe in them?
In which case you do not believe in the Khalsa Panth, what exactly do you beleive in then ?

[sehajkaur]

WindsorSikh2010 writes,

Why do we still want to stay in history insted of creating a future ? History will only keep you where you were,[/

You are saying that we should forget history and move on into the present and future; have you forgotten that it is history that has brought us this far. It is history that created our background, history that has given us Sikh's a name. If we 'move on' and completely avoid the past of Sikhi, then we are not Sikh. You say we should create a future with what is told in the Shree Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the Shree Guru Granth Sahib Ji itself is based on history. How can we forget and move on from what has made us what we are? History is our roots, and if you pull out the roots, the whole plant is removed.

About your question; is giving panj paira da prasad to women wrong, yes it is wrong. This is maryada and it has been carried out from a long time, if our own Sikhs want/try to change that then they are not Sikh.

If I hurt anyones feelings, I apologize.

[TyrantStryker]

Sikhism is a guideline, if we simply just etch interpretations in stone we'll remain in a stone age, you can look at some other organized religions that have lost the plot as an example. In marayada it clearly states a woman can be within the Panj Piaray, and Gurbani states that men and women are equal. Think about it, if Guru Nanak Devi Ji formed langar for kings and paupers, men and women, brahmins and untouchables to sit equally, WHERE logically can those defend that Guru Nanak Devi Ji in his tenth form all of a sudden decides that only men can now run the show regardless of whether a woman has taken Khanday ki Pahul or not?! How this is even a debate is beyond me, other than just more proof of kuljug.

[Jas4raj]

I am most interested in if you can support your case with Gurbani.
I have heard enough about history ( HIS STORY).

I take it from this that since the panj piaray are not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji you do not beleive in them.
What about the panj kakkar, they are not mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, I take it you do not believe in them?
In which case you do not believe in the Khalsa Panth, what exactly do you beleive in then ?

Bundha ji,
I agree with you. Why dont you take it even a step further? In SGGS ji there is mention of only upto 5th Guru Sahib (in the Bhatts Vaars), but there is no mention of 6th to 10th Guru Sahib. Does that mean WindsorSikh2010 does not believe in them either?

Bhul Chuk Maaf.