KHALSALAND--- *The wonder land*

Discussions on various aspects of Sikhi
MONA_SIKH
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KHALSALAND--- *The wonder land*

Post by MONA_SIKH »

Welcome sadh sangat ji,

Subject: Overview of the free land which belongs to the KHALSA and the way it'll be ruled.

Firstly, all my mates and respected readers, please ignore my ID I know it sounds too fake for this disscussion.

In my free time I wonder about this land which stretches from Dera Ghazi khan in the west to Himachal hills in the east And from the Himalayan foothills in the north to Delhi in the south. This is my United Missles of Khalsahttp://www.unp.co.in/f16/sikh-empire-1801-1849-a-52553/ Here every body is free to be a sikh, a hindu, a muslim or follow no relegion. There is no place for fundamentalism.
The government is racing towards economic prosperity and has no datbase of how many relegions have contributed to its GDP. Sikhism has nothing to do with the decisions of the courts and personal opinions. People have the right to say all the bad things about their prime minister. People are free to connect with each other regardless of their faith, caste or creed.
No body has the dare to look at the khalsa land with an eye for bad.
This is my wonderland where every thing is not perfect but everybody is working hard to make it a better place. And sikhism is having a full bloom like it has never experienced in the past 300 years. There is no interference or any kind of disturbance for personal development.
THIS IS MY UNITED MISSLES OF KHALSA/PUNJAB

Any appreciation or dissagreements would be greatly appreciated.
Kuldip S. Virdi
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Re: KHALSALAND--- *The wonder land*

Post by Kuldip S. Virdi »

How do you expect such a land will come under one political entity ? Have you thought that Missles could enforce their writ through force under disintegrating central authority and collect 'rakhi' from the distant places. In the present politicial system of democratic republics, its only the virtues of some sikhs, who can bring them to rule over such an entity otherwsie they may be less than 10% of population of the geogrpahical area foreseen by you which is alreday diviided between two countries and several provinces. Remember, even in the old pre-partion Punjab Sikhs were some 14-16% population and they are not increasing with migration to the West and givimg up of Sikhi swaroop.

One can have as many dreams as one wishes but they may be very diffult to become reality soon.

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh,

Kuldip Singh
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Re: KHALSALAND--- *The wonder land*

Post by TyrantStryker »

Was this the map of Ranjit Singh's Punjab? I'm all for Punjab sovereignty and your Utopian version of it sounds well and good, but why call it Khalistan? From what it sounds like given the separation of religion and state (which I'm completely for, no nation should be governed by someone's interpretation of a religious faith), shouldn't it be simply referred to as the Republic of Punjab? Since that's what it would be?
ImperfectSikh
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Re: KHALSALAND--- *The wonder land*

Post by ImperfectSikh »

Sorry to say this, but this sounds more like la-la land.

First, the future of Sikhi lies in the West, and not in India. Most Indian Sikhs (even the turbaned kind) do not practise any sort of Sikhism discernible from a reading of the scripture or the rehat. Most drink, believe in caste system, abuse their wives/husbands, cut their hair, are overly proud of their material possessions, etc. The Punjabi culture, despite the historical accident, was never a good fit for Sikhism.

Second, the land you speak of is divided between two nuclear armed countries, one of which is headed towards constrained superpowerdom (in another 30-50 years) and the other towards the deepest pits of Islamic fundamentalism. Most Sikhs in the latter are barely tolerated to exist, if there are any left.

Third, organization of nation states on the basis of religion (even if the resulting state be overtly secular), with the sole (and dubious) exception of Israel, has been proven to be a failed model that belongs in the past, not the future.

Fourth, this la-la land has to unfettered outlet to the sea. How in the world is it going to support a modern economy that participates fully as a trading power.

Fifth, in geopolitical terms, this state would have to be a vassal state of either remnant India or China. Neither of which is likely to be your liking.

Its time to wake up and stop seeing medieval Punjab as the future homeland of Sikhism. The Christians did something similar during their Crusades, and had very little to show for it in political terms. It can even be argued that it set them back by almost 300 years even if many ideas of the renaissance had their genesis in their contact with the (then) more advanced cultures of the middle east.
MONA_SIKH
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Re: KHALSALAND--- *The wonder land*

Post by MONA_SIKH »

hi and thanx for posting the most expected views.

Firstly kuldeep virdi wrote that how can this state be ruled under one government. The answer should not be much hard it lies right in the books of history. During the time of maharaja Ranjit singh Punjab was one state (comprising all the missles). Though the rule did not last very long but afterall what is the history for. We can learn from it and can always improve our selves.
Imperfect sikh wrote about the position of punjab. There is nothing wrong with the geographical position of punjab. Neither the muslim state from the west can defeat the sikhs (they knew it in 1965, 1971 and kargil http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-d ... -wars.html)and I dont need to say anything about the curry munchers.
And then there was the mention of Israel, so it is half the answer(was only possible because of their unity). If Jews can get their piece of land out of nowhere than sikhs have the right to rule the land they have fought and bled for.
And if some one here is talking about minority than let me make one thing clear here, if the hindus can rule India after hundreds of years of foriegn rule than the sikhs can definitly acclaim power over their land.
And those who think that punjab at the present can provide a better future for sikhs, let me tell you one thing that there is no way that sikhi can survive in the present PUNJAB now even in the west gurdwaras are being targeted by anti sikh elements (I will soon post a link to a recent controversy in an american gurdwara).
ImperfectSikh
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Re: KHALSALAND--- *The wonder land*

Post by ImperfectSikh »

Sat Sri Akaal,

My response to you was deemed as personal and offensive by the moderators. I merely indicated an unwillingness to join a discussion that is rooted more in historical fantasy than present day geopolitical realities.

In the interim, I find it interesting that the same moderators found nothing even remotely objectionable in your post:
Neither the muslim state from the west can defeat the sikhs (they knew it in 1965, 1971 and kargil http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/general-d ... -wars.html)and I dont need to say anything about the curry munchers.
The racist term often used in the West to deride those of south Asian descent is emphasized for ease of reference.
MONA_SIKH
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Re: KHALSALAND--- *The wonder land*

Post by MONA_SIKH »

Imperfect sikh ji,
The geopolitical boudaries are just man made and humans are known to commit errors/mistakes. The khalsa land can and will emerge as one state one day. How stable are all the other geographical boundaries in the world. We have witnessed breakdown of several kingdoms ourselves in our lifetime. Trust me the true lord can bring down the highest of king and can raise the one right from the ground.
And when I say the Muslim state and the curry munchers I mean no insult that is what they are. I doubt if they would have been some body else if the sikh state was not standing in between them. And I would welcome all you my friends to put forward their views.
ImperfectSikh
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Re: KHALSALAND--- *The wonder land*

Post by ImperfectSikh »

MONA_SIKH wrote:Imperfect sikh ji,
The geopolitical boudaries are just man made and humans are known to commit errors/mistakes. The khalsa land can and will emerge as one state one day. How stable are all the other geographical boundaries in the world. We have witnessed breakdown of several kingdoms ourselves in our lifetime. Trust me the true lord can bring down the highest of king and can raise the one right from the ground.
And when I say the Muslim state and the curry munchers I mean no insult that is what they are. I doubt if they would have been some body else if the sikh state was not standing in between them. And I would welcome all you my friends to put forward their views.
Like I said, you appear to have no conception of how world politics works. Short of communism's collapse which affected multiple countries, just ask yourself how many political boundaries (in much less fraught circumstances) have changed in the last 30 years, let alone the boundaries of nuclear armed states ?

I will leave it to the moderators and yourself to explain the curious reasoning behind how use of a racist term (by the way, I am a curry muncher as well, since guess what - most Punjabi sabjis are curries) can be anything but offensive.

This will be my final message to you.
Kuldip S. Virdi
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Re: KHALSALAND--- *The wonder land*

Post by Kuldip S. Virdi »

Let us take correct lessons from the history. Two points have been made. One of them is the breakup of mighty Kingdoms and the other is about Isreal.

Let us look at the first one. There are no Kingdoms in the present area envisaged by the original poster for the dreamland. Pakistan is in a precarious state of affair but its break up too is not foreseen in the near future. The interest of only global power and need to have a launch pad for covering flanges of Afghanistan and interests in the Central Asia's hydrocarbon resources and all season gateway to the sea in the South of Pakistan is going to ensure US support against any disintegration of Pakistan against their wishes.

India is a regional power on the rise. It does have problems on its periphery but the core is quite intact and strong and with the economic upsurge, a huge middle class market for goods and services of MNCs, no one see its disintegration in foreseeable future. Rather, its a regional power with aspiration of the world power.

Isreal was set up by English rulers with the agreement of French in the trusteeship land of Palestine, which was under thier control following its acession from the Ottoman Empire following their defeat in the the first World War. The holocaust of Jews in Europe at the hand of Nazis and their ghettosiation in European cities, exclusion in Russia and else where generated enough sympathy which coupled with the Zionist revivalism of some of the voluntary settlers in the Kibbutz in the deserts of Palestine led to coming into realm of isreal. Isreal had and continues to have huge financial, moral and political lobby support from the powerful groups in US and Europe. A large number of Jew refugees from the Europe moved there and made a sucess by a very hard sacrificail life for at least two generations.

Never forget the strife created for the ousted Palestinian, who landed up in various middle eastern countries as stateless and impoverished hordes of refugees for last sixty years. There has been a constant tension between various states in the middle east just because of the existence of the state of Isreal and two to three wars which it had waged against its neighbours, adding to the misery of people in the region.

On the other hand, we have more people willing to go out of Punjab on any day rather coming back to settle there and carry out local productive economical activities including agriculture. How many of our friends 'settled' abroad want to come back and make it their home brining their newly acquired skills and capital.

So, in my humble view, wonderland envisaged with a minscule portion of the population can be wished but achievable, does not appear to be practical.

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khlasa, wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh,

Kuldip Singh
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Re: KHALSALAND--- *The wonder land*

Post by KamaljitSingh »

Guess what is the last thing a youth of Punjab would like to discuss these days?Perhaps it is the Khalsaland.He or she would be only too eager to discuss the new visa rules.
Satnam Waheguru

Sewa is a bit extra that we do for the fellow beings and we may call it 'Practical Simran'.
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