Its chief at the centre of a row, Dera Sacha Sauda spreads i

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Its chief at the centre of a row, Dera Sacha Sauda spreads i

Postby Rav_79 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:34 pm

Please refer to the following article in IndianExpress.com.

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/327145.html

It's interesting to note the following items from the article:
- "Over the years, the religious body has brought in its fold people from all sections of the society regardless of caste, creed, race and religion and now boasts of a following of 2.25 crore." - Why have Sikh's been unable to do a similar thing? Is it because of too much Politics and failed Leadership?
- "Before the Dera row started, we had been constructing houses for the poor — almost 10 to 15 per year for the last 10 years in Bathinda district alone. The poor people associated with Dera get spiritual as well as monetary benefits" - Are Sikh's doing similar things all over India?
- "The organization also organises eye and blood donation camps. By registering 15,432 blood donors at a camp in Sirsa in December 2003 it had made it to the Guinness Book of World Records and broke its own record in October 2004 with 17,921 blood donors at a camp in Sriganganagar." - Have Sikh's organized a similar event?
- "Free health and educational facilities attract the poor from all sects and cast to its fold. But, most importantly it appeared to be the identity crisis among the lower strata of society that helped Dera get a huge following. The neglected, looked down upon and alienated lower classes of different religions got an identity after coming to the Dera, say experts." - This has really ticked me off, as Sikh's have principles that state that there is no class or other identity issues. So why have we not managed to have any impact like this Dera?
- "Another reason for the people’s shift towards the Dera culture is that the dominant religions do not change with time and Punjab has been a place where the atmosphere is congenial for the emergence of new religions" - I consider Sikhism to be a dynamic way of life, so i don't completely understand this. But i'm assuming Politics and Leadership has failed to deliver.
- "Experts believe that Dera’s initiative to pursue people to abstain from all kinds of drugs has also appealed to the rural women, who feel that coming in the Dera fold was the best way to keep their husbands away from drugs." - Sikh's should be abstaining from drugs but i've seen many Sikh's involved in alcohol, drugs, etc. No wonder these people are turning away when we as Sikh's ignore the teachings of our own Guru's.
- "The Dera managements claims no Maatha Tikai (monetary offerings) are taken from people except in case of donations for disaster management operations that is undertaken by the religious body." - I like this concept

Now i think it's up to Sikh's to step up with confidence and respect the teachings of Sikhi rather than abusing it. We also require a change in Leadership as right now we're in terrible condition as a community from what i've seen. The Youth must step up and take control of all Sikh leadership positions as we need a revolution..

May Vaheguru help / save his / her Sikh's.
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Re: Its chief at the centre of a row, Dera Sacha Sauda spreads i

Postby dalbirk » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:18 am

ECONOMICS OF THE DERAS :
I wish to clear some plain facts about the mushrooming growth of Deras especially in Punjab . The mother of this is elecoral politics . It is a known fact that in Indian elections votes r sold at a price to political parties , however the exact modus operandi is unclear to many . This is how it works :
There r following political elections held in all states but rates mentioned r specific to Punjab only ; 1. Panchayat Elections , Rate per vote is 5000- 7000 Indian rupees for election of Panches , a furthur expense of 1000/ per vote is incurred to buy Panches for election of the Sarpanch . 2 Block Samiti Elections : Rate per vote is 1000-2000 , liquor bottles , Poppy husk & few hunderes rupees do the trick 3 . Muncipal Committee Elections : Rate is again 1000 - 2000 per vote , same means r used for diostribution 4 . Muncipal Corporation Elections ( For Big Cities ) : Rate is 2000-2500 per vote for electing councillors , a furthur expense of 500 is made for electing Mayor . 5 . Lok Sabha Elections : Rate is 1000-2000 per vote . 6 . Assembly Elections : This is the mother of all elections . Rate is 6000- 8000 per vote , morover the winner takes the all important Chief Minister Ship chair . So in total a vote costs ( Earns ) Rs 16,000 - 25000 ( 400 USD to 625 USD ) in all 5 years . All the Deras , all they have to do is to invite some political leader to some big SATSANG & that political leader pays his RESPECTS to Dera Chief in front of DEVOTEES The leader gets the unusual big crowd , the public gets to see the amount of CLOUT OF BABAJI & to top it all the BABAJI gets his DUE SHARE proportionately . Each vote multiplied by 16,000 to 25,000 Rupees . This BOOTY is in the form of CASH & KIND like land allotment , posting of police officers teachers , health workers , transfers of various officials to PLUM places . Some months back Radha Soami Satsang Beas came to light when they GRABBED a prime real eastate land in Mohali worth about 2800 - 3,000 Crores ( 700 Million USD ) in Mohali for peanuts . The ruckus in press & media forced them to forego 50 % of that land . Still they got to keep land woth 350 Million US Dollars . The Sacha Sauda DeraChief had his Brother In Law ( Harminder Singh Jassi ) a Congress Ticket from Bhatinda superseding Surinder Singla & a promise of withdrawl of CBI enquiry against him various cases of rape , Murdur etc . In 2002 Sonia Gandhi visited RSS Beas just before elections at Beas headquarter & spent a full day there to inagaurate an EYE DONATION CAMP alonwith Natwar Singh , Amarinder Singh , Murli Deora among others . On 30th March , 2008 , LK Advani visited Maharaj Gurinder Singh , Dera head at RSS , Beas . According to known eyewitnesses , the Baba saluted Advani while greeting him . The Akais r also playing this game of FAITH & POLITICS albiet differently . The so called Panthic Party SAD ( Badal ) has a SECULAR CONSTITUTION under which it fights SGPC elections . It treats Sikh votes under the influence of Gurudwaras as a free BONUS VOTE , Ghar di murgi dal barabar . But spends the same rate to get votes from Deras as Congress or now new player in the game BJP . As aresult Deras r wooed by all parties & Deras r rolling in money but traditional Sikh Voter is left high & dry . Gurudwaras get nothing in return , SGPC budget is spent on election rallies & horse trading of SAD ( Badal ) . The preaching of Sikhism is left to Non- Government institutions like Sikh Missionary College , Ludhiana & Guru Gobind Singh Study Circle , Ludhiana . They r not at all helped by Akalis or SGPC financially ., rather hurdles r put in their way . Gurudwaras r controlled by Jats , Dalits r discriminated against in villages . As a result nobody is willing to take the issues of Sikhs , Dera supporters r active in almost every sphere be it Panchayats , Corporations .Some serious introspection is required for revival of Sikhism & slow down this Mushrooming Deras in Punjab
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Re: Its chief at the centre of a row, Dera Sacha Sauda spreads i

Postby vikramjit gurufateh singh » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:59 am

Saad Sangath Ji,

How about all the good that Sikhism has done and is doing for humanity. The sacrifices that Sikhs have made.

When calamities have struck in India or overseas Sikhs have come to the aid of the affected. Literally millions have Langar in Gurudwaras in India and overseas everyday.

Punjab has the highest percentage of Dalits in India and yet BSP ( a Dalit) Party did not win a single seat in the Punjab's Assembly election. This is because they are not discriminated to the extent they are in other Indian States. And the reason for lesser discrimination is because the majority community in Punjab, Sikhs, don't mistreat them like they are in other States. I don't say that there is no discrimination but compared to other States it is much lesser in Punjab and so despite BSP's Head Honcho Mayawathi's best efforts to raise the persecution bogey in Punjab she has not succeeded.

And while drawing up a comparison how come in the article there is no mention of the serious charges that the Dera head is facing. From rape to murder he's facing charges.

This is just Dera propaganda. Deras do flourish because of the networking that the Deras do. But what goes on behind the scenes should also be put in the weighing scales when one weighs the good that the Deras are doing.

Guru Rakha
kabeer kookar ram ko mutheea maero nao ||
Kabeer, I am the Lord's dog; Moti is my name.
galae hamarae jaevaree jeh khinchai theh jao ||74||
There is a chain around my neck; wherever I am pulled, I go. ||74||
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Re: Its chief at the centre of a row, Dera Sacha Sauda spreads i

Postby Kuldip S. Virdi » Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:02 am

Over the years, deradom has not decreased, it has only increased. In fiftys one heard of Nirankaris and Radha Swamis and now we have Ashutosh (Noormahalie), Sacha sauda, Bhaniarwala and so many others. One has to travel any day on the GT road from Delhi to Amritsar and keep out for SUVs flying some kind of flags and slogans and if you can read on the moving vehicles, they all belong to some or other deras. Probably, there are more deras in Punjab then the Gurudwaras.

All deras have big properties all over, they have large followings and they are seemingly engaged in socially relevant activities like eye camps, blood donation camps, running schools/ colleges and ashrams for the old, destiutues and other helpless. They may have provided housing for poors which can be counted on figures. But can we say someting on these subjects for the Gurudwarasa and even SGPC.

The trick for alll deras is to hook in the politically or adminsitratively influential perosns and allow themselves to be used as their 'banks' for their 'illgotten' money and gift them back of course after taking thie 'fees' and use these people as trophies before the massses to hook them to their following and subsequently deliver them as the captive vote banks. All our politicians of all hues have used them at one time or other for their own purposes. There may not be documentation of what is said in the beginning of this para about their finacial transactions but that is what has been documented for many godmen in the other parts India.

The way out is education both social and moral. More proactive civil society to expose them and a meaningful enforcement of the law when they finally do get into the net of the law. We have to come out of being bothered about ourselves and our immediate family and other closely linked and related persons, we rerally have to be civic minded to get any where on these issues and address to the problems created by deras.

Guru fateh.

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Re: Its chief at the centre of a row, Dera Sacha Sauda spreads i

Postby SydneyMunda » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:50 am

I agree with you Rav_79, why should we complain about these Deras...... I mean as long as they are helping poors by providing them food, shelter and drugs.... they are fine regardless to their claims about sprituality. I am not a Sikh and I do not consider Sikhism as a relegion, infact I think Sikhism is a Pathway to Moksha or Mukti and it is open for every caste, creed or relegion. But having said that, should we not consider the present condition of this great path?? How many sikhs are actually following Sikhism today??

I guess if some individuals or groups are helping the community and providing great opportunities for people then we should appreciate it, as we ourselves are doing nothing but whinging.
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Re: Its chief at the centre of a row, Dera Sacha Sauda spreads i

Postby GABHRUji » Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:41 pm

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/st ... 0080064318

Charges framed against Dera chief in sexual harassment case
Press Trust of India
Saturday, September 06, 2008, (Ambala)
A local court on Saturday framed charges against Sirsa-based Dera Sacha Sauda chief Gurmit Ram Rahim Singh in a sexual harassment case.

Court of Special CBI Judge A K Verma framed the charges against the Dera chief under section 376 (rape), 506 (criminal intimidation) and 509 (uttering any word or making any gesture intended to insult the modesty of a woman) of the IPC and set the date of next hearing on October 4.

The Dera chief, who had not appeared in the court at the last two hearings was present on Saturday.

Earlier, the CBI had filed an application on July 26 seeking framing of rape charge against the Dera Chief in connection with an alleged incident of a Sadhvi (disciple) of the Dera at Sirsa in 1999. Gurmit Ram is the lone accused in the case.

The Dera Chief is also an accused in two other cases relating to murders of Sirsa journalist Ram Chander Chatterpatti and a former Dera Manager Ranjeet Singh Gurmeet Ram and five others -- Avtar Singh, Inder Sain, Jasbir Singh, Sabdil and Krishan Lal -- have been accused of murder of Ranjit Singh in 2002 and the Dera head and two others Nirmal Singh and Kuldip Singh have been charged with the murder of Chatterpatti the following year.
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Re: Its chief at the centre of a row, Dera Sacha Sauda spreads i

Postby Mr. 5ingh » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:27 am

Hello sydneymunda,

you wrote "I am not a Sikh and I do not consider Sikhism as a relegion infact I think Sikhism is a Pathway to Moksha or Mukti and it is open for every caste, creed or relegion"

So, please enlighten me on the difference between religion and Pathway to Moksha'. simply putting two words of different language for the same thing is not good enough reason for me ...so pls do enlighten me.

and regarding your first sentence ""I am not a Sikh and I do not consider Sikhism as a relegion"

I would say it like this " I am not Mr. XYZ 's son and I do not consider him as a father", which I think is right in your context also. So, please desist from saying things just for the sake of doing so.

I will reply again after I hear from you

Thank you
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Re: Its chief at the centre of a row, Dera Sacha Sauda spreads i

Postby dalbirk » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:27 am

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Re: Its chief at the centre of a row, Dera Sacha Sauda spreads i

Postby dalbirk » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:32 am

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Re: Its chief at the centre of a row, Dera Sacha Sauda spreads i

Postby vikramjit gurufateh singh » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:13 am

Fateh Ji,

There are scores of Deras in Punjab. But you don't hear Sikhs protesting the presence of these Deras.

In Sacha Sauda Dera's case the problem is that the Dera Head has tried to pose as Guru Gobind SIngh Ji and has tried to replicate Guruji giving Amrit. Sikhs would object if anyone did this and with an alleged rapist and murderer posing as Guruji Sikhs will fight such blasphemy even it means sacrificing their lives.

Please do remember that in such Deras the Dera Head is the nucleus and when the nucleus is totally spiritually bankrupt what do you expect he will teach the followers. If you ask me humanity is being hoodwinked in the name of charity.

Guru Rakha
kabeer kookar ram ko mutheea maero nao ||
Kabeer, I am the Lord's dog; Moti is my name.
galae hamarae jaevaree jeh khinchai theh jao ||74||
There is a chain around my neck; wherever I am pulled, I go. ||74||
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