IF GOD IS EVERYWHERE , WHY GO TO GURUDWARA??

Discussions on various aspects of Sikhi

IF GOD IS EVERYWHERE , WHY GO TO GURUDWARA??

Postby keshgarh » Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:31 am

Dear Sangat ji.
The Issue
Some of my very nice, pious, clear -hearted sikh friends say that as per sikh way of life :-
- God can be achieved by doing meditation.
- God can be achieved by doing path(at home) as per sikh traditions.
- God is omnipresent(balhaari kudrat vasya . He is present in the nature.
- He is present in everywhere.
jalae haree || thhalae haree || ourae haree || banae haree ||1||51||
girae haree || gufae haree || shhithae haree || nabhai haree ||2||52||
eehaa(n) haree || oohaa(n) haree || jimee haree || jamaa(n) haree ||3||53||/i]
-- This Shabad is by Guru Gobind Singh in Amrit Keertan on Pannaa 151
and....
- God can be achieved by keeping a clear heart.


The Dilemma
- If these are all ways in which we could reach the GOD or walk on the path shown by the Guru, Why do we need to go to the Gurudwara everyday? or at all?
- After all , the sikhs during Guru Sahib's times never had so many Gurudwaras nor did they visit the Guru so often. Once Guru gave them the Naam , They were filled for their life.
- My erudite friends say that "see the sangat thronging the Gurudwaras today - all seeking materialistic gains , very few seeking Naam" .
- "Once you have his name in your heart why you need to go to the Gurudwara every now and then?" they argue.

The Questions
- Is it cumpulsory to visit the Gurudwara regurarly?
- Is [i]Gurudwara
and sangat two sides of the same coin?
- Can we achieve perfection in our quest sitting and worshiping him from our homes?
- Are Gurudwara meant for religious activities only. or religio-political or religio-social activities? It certainly cannot be all three because they cross each other.

I humbly seek answers to these questions as per sikh rehat.
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Re: IF GOD IS EVERYWHERE , WHY GO TO GURUDWARA??

Postby makhansinghengland » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:07 am

keshgarh wrote:Dear Sangat ji.
The Issue
Some of my very nice, pious, clear -hearted sikh friends say that as per sikh way of life :-
- God can be achieved by doing meditation.
- God can be achieved by doing path(at home) as per sikh traditions.
- God is omnipresent(balhaari kudrat vasya . He is present in the nature.
- He is present in everywhere.
jalae haree || thhalae haree || ourae haree || banae haree ||1||51||
girae haree || gufae haree || shhithae haree || nabhai haree ||2||52||
eehaa(n) haree || oohaa(n) haree || jimee haree || jamaa(n) haree ||3||53||/i]
-- This Shabad is by Guru Gobind Singh in Amrit Keertan on Pannaa 151
and....
- God can be achieved by keeping a clear heart.


WAHEGURUJIKAKHALSAWAHEGURUJIKEFATEH.


[i]Why go to a Gurdwara?



Water is everywhere,why go to a tap?

Air is everywhere,why go to an air conditioned room?

Knowledge is everywhere,why go to school?

Food is everywhere,why go the kitchen?


The Dilemma
- If these are all ways in which we could reach the GOD or walk on the path shown by the Guru, Why do we need to go to the Gurudwara everyday? or at all?
- After all , the sikhs during Guru Sahib's times never had so many Gurudwaras nor did they visit the Guru so often. Once Guru gave them the Naam , They were filled for their life.
- My erudite friends say that "see the sangat thronging the Gurudwaras today - all seeking materialistic gains , very few seeking Naam" .
- "Once you have his name in your heart why you need to go to the Gurudwara every now and then?" they argue.

The Questions
- Is it cumpulsory to visit the Gurudwara regurarly?
- Is Gurudwara and sangat two sides of the same coin?
- Can we achieve perfection in our quest sitting and worshiping him from our homes?
- Are Gurudwara meant for religious activities only. or religio-political or religio-social activities? It certainly cannot be all three because they cross each other.

I humbly seek answers to these questions as per sikh rehat.
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Re: IF GOD IS EVERYWHERE , WHY GO TO GURUDWARA??

Postby jaskaur » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:47 am

it is necessary to visit the gurdwara to get the company of sangat.

it is necessary to visit the gurdwara to get the benefit of live keertan.

it is necessary to visit the gurdwara to have darshan of guru sahib (unless you have guru sahib in your home or are very very blessed to have his darshan in person!)

sikh rehat maryada says:

Article V

One is more easily and deeply affected by Gurbani (the holy Bani bequeathed by the Gurus) participating in congregational gatherings. For this reason, it is necessary for a Sikh that he visits the places where the Sikhs congregate for worship and prayer (the Gurdwaras), and joining the congregation, partake of the benefits that the study of the holy scriptures bestows.

gurbani says:


ਆਪੇ ਦੇਇ ਤ ਪਾਈਐ ਹੋਰੁ ਕਰਣਾ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
He Himself gives, and then we receive. Nothing else can be done.

ਦੇਵਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਕੈ ਹਥਿ ਦਾਤਿ ਹੈ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੁਆਰੈ ਪਾਇ ॥
The Gift is in the Hands of the Great Giver. At the Guru's Door, in the Gurdwara, it is received.

and


ਸਚੁ ਸਾਲਾਹੀ ਧੰਨੁ ਗੁਰਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
Blessed is that Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, where the Praises of the True Lord are sung.

and


ਭਾਂਡਾ ਹਛਾ ਸੋਇ ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਸੀ ॥
That vessel alone is pure, which is pleasing to Him.

ਭਾਂਡਾ ਅਤਿ ਮਲੀਣੁ ਧੋਤਾ ਹਛਾ ਨ ਹੋਇਸੀ ॥
The filthiest vessel does not become pure, simply by being washed.

ਗੁਰੂ ਦੁਆਰੈ ਹੋਇ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਇਸੀ ॥
Through the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, one obtains understanding.

ਏਤੁ ਦੁਆਰੈ ਧੋਇ ਹਛਾ ਹੋਇਸੀ ॥
By being washed through this Gate, it becomes pure.

and


ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਏਕੁ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਕੋ ਲਹੈ ॥
How rare are those who, as Gurmukh, attain the One Lord.

ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦੇਇ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਏ ॥
They alone find peace, whom the Lord blesses with His Grace.

ਗੁਰੂ ਦੁਆਰੈ ਆਖਿ ਸੁਣਾਏ ॥੭॥
In the Gurdwara, the Guru's Door, they speak and hear of the Lord. ||7||

there are a LOT more references... :)
no one is born Sikh. share the story of how you found this path.

http://www.sikhbychoice.com
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Re: IF GOD IS EVERYWHERE , WHY GO TO GURUDWARA??

Postby NZ_SIKH » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:47 am

We go to Gurdwara not to please the God. God does not want anything from us. We go to Gurdwara to purify our mind and to keep our mann free from worldly desires by listening to kirtan. Atleast i think this way.
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Re: IF GOD IS EVERYWHERE , WHY GO TO GURUDWARA??

Postby vikramjit gurufateh singh » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:16 am

Fateh parwaan karro jiyo,

Gurudwara is the place where one gets to know about the path to God. In the Gurudwara in gets to do Sangat,Sewa and Simran.

Ang 730

guroo dhuaarai hoe sojhee paaeisee ||
Through the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, one obtains understanding.

Ang 922

guradhuaarai laae bhaavanee eikanaa dhasavaa dhuaar dhikhaaeiaa ||
Through the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, some are blessed with loving faith, and the Tenth Door is revealed to them.

Guru Rakha

n
kabeer kookar ram ko mutheea maero nao ||
Kabeer, I am the Lord's dog; Moti is my name.
galae hamarae jaevaree jeh khinchai theh jao ||74||
There is a chain around my neck; wherever I am pulled, I go. ||74||
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Re: IF GOD IS EVERYWHERE , WHY GO TO GURUDWARA??

Postby bill33 » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:32 pm

dear keshgarh ji,
you have brought out a very valid point here, i will try to explain the whole situation to you in detail.
FIRSTLY;- you dont have to give any references, the whole of SGGS bani says that god is omnipresent and is present at every place including our heart,you dont have to go to any place to remember or pray god, it can be done in space or at any other place at earth including your home.
SECONDLY;- for obtaining god satguru or true guru is the first and foremost requirement , and our Guru is SGGS. i can tell you from personal experience that the company of guru in the form of bani is a shield which saves a sikh from five vikaars, kaam, krodth, lobh, moh, ahankaar . the moment we go away from the bani these evils start to engulf us.
THIRDLY;- gurubani has accorded a great importance to saadsangat. now what is saadsangat, it is company of holy man(saints), and i doubt that there are many saints nowadays out of the people who assemble in Gurudwaras.
QUESTION;- is it possible to obtain the god without going to gurudwara or with out physical company of fellow sikhs or without physical saadsangath.
ANSWER;- yes it is , i can tell you a way , you know that bani of SGGS comprises of GURUS and holy bhagats, you dont have to go to gurudwara, just obtain a 'e' copy of guru bani and remain in the company of holiest of saints 24x7 . just read and contemplate gurubani everyday you will be in constant company of guru himself who will save you from five vikaars and will keep your mind always attuned towards god almighty.also invest in a ipod fill it up with shaabd kirtan , and remain absorbed in the kirtan of guru,s shabad 24x7. you will find inner peace,and can avoid politics that is rampant in gurudwaras today.
SGGS ji maharaj himself says that 'GURU KI SEVA SHABAD VICHAAR' any one who contemplates gurubani is actually doing seva of guru ji.
LASTLY;- gurubani shows us the way but as directed by guruji the ultimate aim is naam simran, do that whether it is home, gurudwara , market or any other place and you are sure to obtain god
JINA NAAM DHIYAYA GAYAI MASAKAT GAAL , NANAK TE MOOKH UJLAI KETI CHUTTI NAAL
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Re: IF GOD IS EVERYWHERE , WHY GO TO GURUDWARA??

Postby rehatmaryada » Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:46 pm

Gurdwara is a School / University - A Sikh is a Student!

And Sikhi is to keep learning !

There are all sorts of lectures / lessons there.
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Re: IF GOD IS EVERYWHERE , WHY GO TO GURUDWARA??

Postby jaskaur » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:58 pm

bill, i disagree. isolating yourself from sangat will make the path to god difficult if not impossible. gurbani tells us over and over that the way to god is through the sadsangat.

now you say there are no saints in the gurdwara. how do you know that? how do you know w ho is a saint and who is not? do they wear a sign of some sort? saints keep their avastha gupt. they don't go around showing off. i bet there is a saint in every congregation, you just don't know who he or she is.

don't be so negative or isolationist. sikhi is a faith that requires congregating with like minded people in order to grow spiritually. bhai sahib rama singh ji said that if 100 people do naam simran for 1 hour, every one of them gets 100 hours of laha! imagine trying to accumulate 100 hours of simran by yourself, when you could do it in just one hour in sangat! now imagine you get 100 hours every week and it only takes you one hour a week to do it? isn't that worth something?

it is to me! :)
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Re: IF GOD IS EVERYWHERE , WHY GO TO GURUDWARA??

Postby perrysingh » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:48 am

There is a sufi poem by Baba Bulleh Shah that goes "Na Rab Milda Mandaran'ch, Nah Rab Milda Museetan'ch, Rab Gharrey Aakhe Milda, Saaf Jidhian Neeatan." You will not meet God in the Mandir nor will you see him in the Mosque. No, he will come to your house himself if your heart is clean.
Anyone seeking God in a Gurudwara is undoubtedly going to be dissapointed. A Gurudwara CAN be a place where one can meet his maker, if his heart enters the sanctuary heavy. If your heart is in the right place, the Gurudwara is an excellent place to meet your maker. However, most people do not understand this distinction and treat visiting a Gurudwara like Hindus visit Teerath's. You can meet God at home. You can meet God in the Gurudwara. You can meet him anywhere, if your heart is clean.
With that said, let's not be cynical here. The Sangat (a gathering of like-minded clean hearted humans seeking God) is a blessing and one of the gifts that our Guru's left us. Our religion is all about people. We do not hide and meditate in a corner like Buddhists. We immerse ourselves with people around us. The Sangat is a mystical, holy gathering of souls that few of us are fortunate to be part of - ever. When you can sit in a room with people who have the love in their hearts as you for God, you can feel it and you benefit from it. Guru Gobindh Singh made it very clear that wherever you find five Sikhs gathered in one place, you will find God there. Cynics have their own reason for damning the institution of the Gurudwara, but they fail to realize the value these places have and their valid reasons for existing. They also fail to benefit from the intense power and joy that is attained by partaking in the Sangat.
DHANN DHANN SATGURU NANAK - TUHEEN NIRANKAR II SABH TON VADDA SATGURU NANAK JIN KEETI RAKHI MERI II
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Re: IF GOD IS EVERYWHERE , WHY GO TO GURUDWARA??

Postby PCJ2K » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:08 am

http://www.razarumi.com/2008/02/20/why-search-for-god/

Je rab milda nahateya dhoteya, te rab milda dadduan machiyan noo,
Je rab milda jangal phireyan te rab milda gaiyaan bachiyan noon
Je rab milda mandir – masiti te milda cham chidikhiyan noon

Ve miyan Bulleya rab onhan noon milda
Ati dil-eya achiyyan sachhiya noon



If God was to be found by bathing and cleaning, then frogs and fishes would have found him long back
If God was to be found by roaming in jungles, then cows and other animals would have found him long back
If God was to be found in Temples and Mosques then the birds and the bats would have found him long back

Bulle, God will be found only by those who are true and good at heart….
Live your life to the fullest, Lord will take care of the rest...
What a wonderful world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5IIXeR5 ... re=related

or

Neelay gagan ke talay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipuJOUwWkD8
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