Guru Gobind Singh ji's 52 Vachans/Hukams/Commands

Discussions on various aspects of Sikhi
Serjinder Singh
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Re: Guru Gobind Singh ji's 52 Vachans/Hukams/Commands

Post by Serjinder Singh »

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

These so called ’52 Parvachans of tenth Guru ji’ were never said by tenth Guru ji as such. These were written by one Giani Thakur Singh in a book ‘Gurduare Darshan’ published by him in 1923 ( see Adi Sikh te Adi Sakhian, by Principal Satbir Singh, New Book Company, 1987, Jallandhar, page 285). In that book without any proof he purported these to have been said by tenth Guru ji at Nander at the time of passing away. He vaguely said that these ‘Parvachans’ have been collected from various granths and put in one place. Giani Thakur Singh was one of the founder members of Chief Khalsa Dewan (Encyclopaedia of Sikhism, Vol 4, page 346, Punjabi University, Patiala, 1998).

These were widely propagated particularly in Amritsar during late 1980's at the height of sikh disturbances emphasising the 'Parvachan Nos. 23 -30' because of the implied political message. These were accompanied by distorted versions of some sections of 'Sau Sakhi' as well.

Humbly
Serjinder Singh
lakwinder singh
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Re: Guru Gobind Singh ji's 52 Vachans/Hukams/Commands

Post by lakwinder singh »

Some self appointed scholars on sikhism never miss a chance to muddy sikh history and traditions. Many times they go out of the way to discard any quoted historical source by jugglery of language to impress others.

Serjinder Singh ji wrote
These so called ’52 Parvachans of tenth Guru ji’ were never said by tenth Guru ji as such.
Please provide us with a credible source to back your above statement with a reference.

Given below is the list of 52 edicts of Guru sahib.

http://www.info-sikh.com/Page52Hukams.html

unquote

Please tell us what is wrong with these that make one to issue a sarcastic statement.
Punjabi G
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Re: Guru Gobind Singh ji's 52 Vachans/Hukams/Commands

Post by Punjabi G »

It is a sad state of affairs that anything is attributed to Guru Sahib these days without checking it's credibility. This so called hukamnama has been circulating around various sites and discussion forums for a long period but nobody gives any details on it's source. When it was written, where is it now and does it have Guru ji's Nisaan which is available on all authentic Hukamnamas?

Sikh scholar Ganda Singh collected various original hukamnamas from Guru Sahibs and other sources of the times and compiled them together under his now published work called Hukamname. Anyone can purchase it and look at original hukamnamas of 10th Guru ji and this 52 Bachan list to see the difference. Style of writing and language used is of much later period then what Guru Ji used in his hukamname. Another aspect is that Hukamname of all Guru Sahib were not really any "orders" or commmands for Sikh sangat but very particular and written or addressed to local sangat of certain region. For example, a Hukamnama for "Dhaul ki sangat" (sangat of Dhaul) or Hukamnama for "Sarbat Sangat Bairadan ki" etc.

Another particular aspect of Hukamname of 10th Guru Sahib was that they contained total number of lines used in the hukamnama at the end so that there is no interpolation. If anything was added later on then total of all lines is given again at the end. This point should be noted because it is similar to how Gurbani in Guru Granth Sahib was codified as well to make sure no interpolation takes place.
lakwinder singh
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Re: Guru Gobind Singh ji's 52 Vachans/Hukams/Commands

Post by lakwinder singh »

The title of thread is 52 vachans/Hukams/Commands of Guru gobind Singh ji and not written Hukamnames.

I read the Hukams and did not find anything contradictory to what Guru sahib asked His sikhs to abide by.

Revisionists see everything with suspicion connected with tenth master.
Kuldip S. Virdi
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Re: Guru Gobind Singh ji's 52 Vachans/Hukams/Commands

Post by Kuldip S. Virdi »

I some how had missed this thread earlier and how I wish I had not done so, as day before yesterday I was in Nanded visiting the Sachkhand Abchalnagar and near by Gurudwaras. I saw these fifty two bachhans written on boards at the entry of Gurudwara Banda Ghat on the bank of Godavari River. These bachhans are printed on two boards in Nagri (HindI) and Gurumukhi script and I did stop to read all of them. Since, I did not have background in them I did not make any enquiry from the attendant of the Gurudwara about the source of the same. May be others who visit this Gurudwara in Nanded may make enquiries and add to the information on the subject or may be as and when I go back to Nanded will like to make enquiries on the subject.

Incidentally, the Hazur Sahib Sachkahnd Complex has been completed after the 300 Year Celebration of the Installation of the SGGS as the Guru last year and is splendid to say the least. There seems to be marked improvement in the facilities for the visting pilgrims, the staff we found on this trip very helpful and most of the services were well organized. The visit was very fulfilling experience.

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji KI Fateh,

Kuldip Singh
Serjinder Singh
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Re: Guru Gobind Singh ji's 52 Vachans/Hukams/Commands

Post by Serjinder Singh »

Waheguru ji ka khalsaa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Punjabi G ji, I agree with you entirely. Just as it is a greatest sin for a sikh to attribute any lines not in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and to say that these were written by one of the first nine Guru ji, similarly, it is a sin to attempt to put unvarified statements or in this case a list of commands or bachans into the mouth of tenth Guru ji.

In the current case of '52 Bachans' this I think is not even a 'Hukamnama'.

During the early decades of the twentieth century in the absence of a proper 'Sikh Rehat Maryadaa' agreed and approved by the Sikh Panth various writers were writing and circulating their own Rehats. In the present case Giani Thakur Singh a founder member of Chief Khalsa Diwan prepared this list and published it in his book 'Gurdware Darshsn' in the 1920's saying that it was complied by picking bits from various Granths.

Satbir Singh gave this list in his book 'Adi Sikh te Adi Sakhian' published in 1987 without verifying any source despite him knowing there was none where all these were in one place. He however, categorically says that it was from Giani Thakur Singh's book.

Even otherwise there are some so called 'bachans' that are unacceptable, for instance, one suggesting the use of Saam, Daam, Dand, Bhed. A Sikh does not and should not use 'Bhed' to falsely create differences between two persons using lies just to attain his/her own objective however well meaning. Similarly, a sikh does not use 'Daam' or money to bribe a person to achieve the same objective.

Tenth Guru ji despite all the difficult periods in his life never resorted to such low level tactics then how could Guru ji command Sikhs to do this.

These bachans are nothng but the projections of Giani Thakur Singh's own views and apparent prejudices against non-sikhs.

Humbly
Serjinder Singh
lakwinder singh
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Re: Guru Gobind Singh ji's 52 Vachans/Hukams/Commands

Post by lakwinder singh »

These are not Hukamnames.The title states these are Hukam or teachings/ instructions of Guru Gobind singh ji. I do not see anything anti gurmat in these.
Jas4raj
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Re: Guru Gobind Singh ji's 52 Vachans/Hukams/Commands

Post by Jas4raj »

Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji Ki Phateh.

After starting this discussion on this forum, I continued this discussion offline with many people and I noticed an interesting trend.
Although a small sample size, but most people who questioned these "52 vachans" were either people with turban and trimmed beard. I did not get many "monas" who questioned these either because they were not aware or knowledgeable about enough sikhi. But suprisingly, the "monas" who did lot of seva at the Gurduara said they believed in each and every of these vachans - even though they were not able to follow them. note - Not one Amritdhari discredited or questioned these vachans as these do follow in line of rehat.

So, I am curious to know from all the folks involved in this forum, would you like to be invovled in this survey?
Would you be willing to answer 3 questions?
1/ Do you believe these 52 Vachans are Legit?
2/ Are you Amritdhari?
3/ If not Amritdhari - do you wear turban? and do you cut (trim/shave etc) your hair?

Bhul Chuk Maaf.
________________________________
ਨਮਸਕਾਰੁ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਕੋ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਿਸੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ ।
I bow before the Guru (Guru Nanak Dev) who recited the Satnam mantra(for the world).
- Bhai Gurdaas ji (P1, V1)
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