Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Discussions on various aspects of Sikhi
Nihal Singh Kanakpuria
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by Nihal Singh Kanakpuria »

JasbeerSingh wrote:
I dont know why you think that a Sikh Keshdharis statements cant be judgmental towards other Sikhs , Being keshdhari and being judgmental are 2 totally different things , one doesn't preclude the other

[Edited: personal criticism]

Nihal
Nihal Singhji,

I am seriously searching for answers which I haven't got till now. Please help me out don't think that I am here to let my own community down. neither I am here to pass judgement, but my mind baffles me at the double standards which we take when following rehat, we follow some and we leave some, how can we explain it. And this becomes a major obstacle when we do prachaar

Jasbeer Singh ji,

You come across as someone demanding answers and not as someone who is searching or looking for answers, there is a big difference between these two activities,

For a start you should consider that Sikhs don't exist in a vacuum, we exist in a this world along with all other religions , and all the external forces that are exerted on Sikh community as such, Most of the external forces are exerted on Sikh articles of faith, (implicitly or explicitly) as they help us in defining our identity.

You won't find external forces exerted on why some Sikhs keep surname issue etc as it isn't really that different from the environment (as in most of the communities keep last names even in western environment), Hence since the Sikh articles of faith are most vulnerable to external forces, they are most protected by the Sikh paanth as well.

-Nihal
JasbeerSingh
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by JasbeerSingh »

Nihaal Singhji,

I disagree with you on this part specially,
You come across as someone demanding answers and not as someone who is searching or looking for answers, there is a big difference between these two activities,
Sorry bhaiji, I am just looking for answers and convincing answers
For a start you should consider that Sikhs don't exist in a vacuum, we exist in a this world along with all other religions , and all the external forces that are exerted on Sikh community as such, Most of the external forces are exerted on Sikh articles of faith, (implicitly or explicitly) as they help us in defining our identity.
So ultimately it comes down to IDENTITY, well Nihal Singhji then for identity people to whom we preach about our articles of faith will say, Isn't Turban more than enough? because in 21st century the style of Turban worn by Sikhs is unique and more than enough to make us stand apart in crowd how will u convince them for keeping unshorn hair? The people to whom Gurdwara does prachar do ask such questions and it becomes difficult to answer

You won't find external forces exerted on why some Sikhs keep surname issue etc as it isn't really that different from the environment (as in most of the communities keep last names even in western environment), Hence since the Sikh articles of faith are most vulnerable to external forces, they are most protected by the Sikh paanth as well.
But, Nihalji question is about following Hukam of Guru Gobind Singhji, I am not saying there is a problem in keeping surnames but then why should we keep it when Guru Gobind Singhji didn't keep himself and also panj pyaras. And when u say this line
it isn't really that different from the environment (as in most of the communities keep last names even in western environment)
Then people can justify cutting hairs on the basis of external Environment. Hence please provide clear answers.


To ADS,
Dear Jasbeer Singh,
The world is in illusion that one's identity is superior in some way than the other. There was a reason why Guru Gobind Singh ji advised all sikhs to follow rehat maryada (now became sikhs identity). And that reason was to remain spiritual, without falling in own ego, or come out of the trap of maya. "Sikhaan da mann neevaan, matt uchhi" If we remember & maintain these basics then it does not matter whether one keeps unshorn hairs, do clippings, monna.
A Sikh has to do more than just following the rehat maryada to become the true sikh of the Guru.
I agree to what u have said. But to add more I feel that it does matter to keep unshorn hairs because it is the reason behind Keeping our identity alive till date. But at the same time, people who keep hairs forget that Sikhi is muh more than just keeping rehat. Also the flexibility and acceptability in tampering with other articles of faith like kangha, kirpaan (not kept by most of the Sikhs) and then allowing chemicals on face to look good seems like we ourselves not want to follow it fully. But yes what u say is also true a Sikh's ideal aim should be "Mann neeva, Matt ucchi"
loverofgod0
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by loverofgod0 »

Well, you asked nice question.I will say no no because first we need to purify our hearts then become a sikh.If someone keeps hair that doesn't make him pure.He is not doing something awesome. He should feel blessed. The problem is sikhs think they do something great by keeping hair.
Our body doesn't go with us to the lords court.In Sggs there is nothing written about keeping hair...
A sikh is one who questions one who learns.many sikhs don't have problem with drinking alcohol but do have problem with cutting hair.Thats a shame.
JasbeerSingh
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by JasbeerSingh »

loverofgod0 wrote:Well, you asked nice question.I will say no no because first we need to purify our hearts then become a sikh.If someone keeps hair that doesn't make him pure.He is not doing something awesome. He should feel blessed. The problem is sikhs think they do something great by keeping hair.
Our body doesn't go with us to the lords court.In Sggs there is nothing written about keeping hair...
A sikh is one who questions one who learns.many sikhs don't have problem with drinking alcohol but do have problem with cutting hair.Thats a shame.
Dear loveforgod,
That's the most frank answer I have ever heard at least on this thread. Thanks for at least acknowledging my question as "Nice" because till now I was getting bashing because I Questioned. I questioned some beliefs which is being kept as tradition without being questioned. Either people like us get labelled as "agents" trying to submerse our tradition or simply as Blasphemous Sikh. I don't think it is a crime to question in Sikhi.
Gaganjeet
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by Gaganjeet »

Guru sahib wont unnecessarily ask us to keep hair. this question arises because the majority around us don't keep hair. it has been quite some time that people people started cutting hair. It may be the ancient Chinese or Vedic people, they all kept long hair. you will find the most logical answer in the video below. its a pity that most of the sikh gyanis too don't have a convincing answer to this question. well the answer you will find to this is when a person grows spiritually to a higher level. every avatar, rishi and paigambar in sikh, Christian, muslim and sanatan dharma's had hair. mostly when a person moves from the 3 different stages to the 4th stage of "chautha padh" or "Turiya avastha" - " raj gun tam gun sat gun kahiye ek teri sab maya, chauthe pad ko jo nar cheeneh tin hi parampadh paya" and "teen beyapeh jagat kau turiya paveh koye". only a brahamgyani who has reached that stage can answer this and guide us. Nature doesn't gives us anything without a purpose. these 2 videos will help with your question.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkTheoMwI7c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF211fAKt4I
JasbeerSingh
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by JasbeerSingh »

Gaganjeet wrote:Guru sahib wont unnecessarily ask us to keep hair. this question arises because the majority around us don't keep hair. it has been quite some time that people people started cutting hair. It may be the ancient Chinese or Vedic people, they all kept long hair. you will find the most logical answer in the video below. its a pity that most of the sikh gyanis too don't have a convincing answer to this question. well the answer you will find to this is when a person grows spiritually to a higher level. every avatar, rishi and paigambar in sikh, Christian, muslim and sanatan dharma's had hair. mostly when a person moves from the 3 different stages to the 4th stage of "chautha padh" or "Turiya avastha" - " raj gun tam gun sat gun kahiye ek teri sab maya, chauthe pad ko jo nar cheeneh tin hi parampadh paya" and "teen beyapeh jagat kau turiya paveh koye". only a brahamgyani who has reached that stage can answer this and guide us. Nature doesn't gives us anything without a purpose. these 2 videos will help with your question.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkTheoMwI7c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF211fAKt4I
Thanks Gagan for this,

You won't believe even I have listened to these videos of Sadhguru, I find him an interesting spiritual preacher of the modern times in India. But dear gagan I think you haven't gone through all of my posts in this thread, I am not questioning the Gurus.. But I am questioning over sensitivity to this attached by our Sikhs while at the same time showing no botheration with other rahats and I was not seeking answer as to Why we keep hairs? But why so much of hullabaloo over one thing "hairs" but not other rehats prescribed by Gurus.. Going by your own words I also agree that "Guru sahib wont unnecessarily ask us to keep hair" very true, but then why we allow the application of chemicals on face then? How are we respecting nature then, even we are ashamed to keep hairs in natural form otherwise what is the need to apply facial gels and Fixers.. Just to look good? Is this the natural form? Hence people ask that if we feel hesitant in keeping natural form of beard what is the point to keep it at all. Like that boy asked. (refer to my first post on this question)

Again I am prompted to repeat but dear what about the most important rehat which very few Sikhs follow today i.e giving up suranames and caste identities.. Why no hue and cry over this? why don't we note that Guru Gobind Singh wouldn't have gone to the extent of changing his own name from Gobind Rai to Gobind Singh without any thought process.. So when we keep this one thing so close to our heart (keeping hairs) why not other things?
Gaganjeet
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by Gaganjeet »

Dear Jasbir, yes I realised later after submitting the above post to mention that I have not gone through all the posts under this thread. then it was too late to resubmit another one.
The answer to your question is again simple. we don't have Sikhs at the helm who follow instructions of our Guru. Most of us just follow things that just benefits us. Like give us this boon and we will have KARAH Prashad for this amount presented at particular teerath. most of us will rush on a particular Gurprab to a certain historical gurudwara in lakhs but will not sit in love or do sewa at a gurudwara in the colony. My own family members will call all friends and relatives and go to Bangla Sahib, etc. but not do a PAATH at the gurudwara in the colony. And all they do is chatting, spend some money in golakh or karah prashad and on way back have snacks somewhere.
For any issues in the PANTh, majority will blame the RSS. I mostly question them, did RSS people went from house to house in Punjab to move your kids away from sikhi like most of the elders have hair and young ones are clean shaven, smoking tobacco, etc. RSS people didn't do this, we ourselves have done this to our people.
Most of my hindu friends who travel abroad have stopped visiting gurudwaras there. they visit when in India. they say they are afraid because most of the talk or katha there is about elections in gurudwara or why sikh dharam is greater than Krishna's teachings, etc. Whereas Guru gave his head to protect the worshipping rights of people worshipping idols, etc. A sikh believes that everyone has a right to worship god as he wishes.
There is no solution to this except a sangat of a brahamgyani. I was blessed to be in sangat of great Gurmukhs. Common man wants boons, happiness for family, whereas the pracharaks want praise and money. Gyani Maskeenji used to say that it use to pain him to the core to see the gyanis and pracharaks full of ego when he visited Gurusthans for katha's.
I really apologise if I have hurt feeling of anyone. I truly feel our focus should be "JAPOH TA EKO NAAMA, AWAR NIRAFAL KAAMA", apart from earning livelihood honestly and sharing with needy. This journey is too small and we have been blessed to get a human body for self realisation.
JasbeerSingh
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by JasbeerSingh »

Gaganjeet wrote:Dear Jasbir, yes I realised later after submitting the above post to mention that I have not gone through all the posts under this thread. then it was too late to resubmit another one.
The answer to your question is again simple. we don't have Sikhs at the helm who follow instructions of our Guru. Most of us just follow things that just benefits us. Like give us this boon and we will have KARAH Prashad for this amount presented at particular teerath. most of us will rush on a particular Gurprab to a certain historical gurudwara in lakhs but will not sit in love or do sewa at a gurudwara in the colony. My own family members will call all friends and relatives and go to Bangla Sahib, etc. but not do a PAATH at the gurudwara in the colony. And all they do is chatting, spend some money in golakh or karah prashad and on way back have snacks somewhere.
For any issues in the PANTh, majority will blame the RSS. I mostly question them, did RSS people went from house to house in Punjab to move your kids away from sikhi like most of the elders have hair and young ones are clean shaven, smoking tobacco, etc. RSS people didn't do this, we ourselves have done this to our people.
Most of my hindu friends who travel abroad have stopped visiting gurudwaras there. they visit when in India. they say they are afraid because most of the talk or katha there is about elections in gurudwara or why sikh dharam is greater than Krishna's teachings, etc. Whereas Guru gave his head to protect the worshipping rights of people worshipping idols, etc. A sikh believes that everyone has a right to worship god as he wishes.
There is no solution to this except a sangat of a brahamgyani. I was blessed to be in sangat of great Gurmukhs. Common man wants boons, happiness for family, whereas the pracharaks want praise and money. Gyani Maskeenji used to say that it use to pain him to the core to see the gyanis and pracharaks full of ego when he visited Gurusthans for katha's.
I really apologise if I have hurt feeling of anyone. I truly feel our focus should be "JAPOH TA EKO NAAMA, AWAR NIRAFAL KAAMA", apart from earning livelihood honestly and sharing with needy. This journey is too small and we have been blessed to get a human body for self realisation.

Gaganjeet,
Finally, I am really very happy to see a person whose thinking exactly matches my thinking. Reading your comment seemed as if I am speaking myself. This cannot be real bro, so much of similarity in our thoughts and then you also mentioned Panth Rattan Sant Singh Maskeenji whose knowledge and tuks were astounding till date I can bet no preacher has come close to him.. I am happy that there are indeed people in the community who do think rationally and do not blame RSS for every thing wrong that is happening with Sikhs and do rejoice listening to other thoughts (like Sadguru in your case).

There is an urgent need to address all such issues brother. Seriously I feel that community is being misguided at large and many people are being fooled to buy some arguments. In this scenario org. like 3ho, basics of Sikhi can be of really good help. It's a sad reality what your Hindu friends say about visiting some Gurdwaras in Abroad. Where Nindas are happening under the very nose of our Guru, Bhai Nand lal in his Tankhnama says quoting Guru Gobind Singhji that "khaalasaa Soi Jo Nindaa Tiaagay" meaning Khalsa is the one, who renounces criticisms and just see what is happening in Gurdwaras in the name of preaching Khalsa Panth.. May Akal Purakh save us all from this menace
Gaganjeet
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by Gaganjeet »

Yes, only akal purakh can help us. The 3ho already has its opponents/ nindaks and thinkers who are hell bent on saying that 3ho is not part of sikhi. Just type "sikhnet should apologise" and see the propaganda. Similar is the case for basics of sikhi. They are the recent targets for Bhai jagraaj sing visiting 3HO.
I used to listen to lot of basics of sikhi videos. but I was taken aback when in his talks and debates bhai Jagraj Singh said that all the religions have the truth but only Sikhism has the complete truth. That sounded astonishing. if Hinduism didn't had the truth Guru sahib would have not agreed to Kapil rishi's theory of three gun, turiya awastha, and many more things like -"bedh katebh kaho mat jhoothe, jhootha jo na bichaare", "simran bedh puraan pukaran pothiya naam bina sab kudh gaali hochiyan". Guru sahib here give the crux that 27 simratiya written by Mannu rishi ji, 4 Bedh written by Brahmaji, 18 Puraan written by Bedh Vyas ji and umpteen other literature say the same thing - ALL TALK BESIDE LORDS NAME ARE USELESS AND is LOW TALK.
So if we say other religions have only half truth, Namdeo ji and Baba Faridji would have never achieved complete truth. Infact their baani is Guru for the Sikhs today. It has been given the UPAADHI of Guru by Guruji himself.
To be honest here, I have stopped listening to the gyanis and kathavachaks. They have only one agenda how to tell Guru's stories but not the message of the Guru. Good to read your comments. It feels nice to have a companion who goes by VICHAAR and not blindly. A brahamgyani with whom I learned seva and love for Guru used to say - VICHAAR or inquisitiveness is the only thing that seperates us humans from other living things like animals, plants, etc. Through Vichaar only one realises what is truth and finds a way to achieve the truth. Rest very thing is the same- sleeping, eating, raising kids. They too feel pain and separation but don't have the complete VICHAAR shakti to find out the reason and rise above pain and pleasure.
So blessed are us who have the time to find a way out, or stay like this. Nirankaar akalpurakh can help us be true Sikhs
Romesh Kumar
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Re: Is Sikhi all about hairs?

Post by Romesh Kumar »

JasbeerSingh wrote:
Gaganjeet wrote:Dear Jasbir, yes I realised later after submitting the above post to mention that I have not gone through all the posts under this thread. then it was too late to resubmit another one.
The answer to your question is again simple. we don't have Sikhs at the helm who follow instructions of our Guru. Most of us just follow things that just benefits us. Like give us this boon and we will have KARAH Prashad for this amount presented at particular teerath. most of us will rush on a particular Gurprab to a certain historical gurudwara in lakhs but will not sit in love or do sewa at a gurudwara in the colony. My own family members will call all friends and relatives and go to Bangla Sahib, etc. but not do a PAATH at the gurudwara in the colony. And all they do is chatting, spend some money in golakh or karah prashad and on way back have snacks somewhere.
For any issues in the PANTh, majority will blame the RSS. I mostly question them, did RSS people went from house to house in Punjab to move your kids away from sikhi like most of the elders have hair and young ones are clean shaven, smoking tobacco, etc. RSS people didn't do this, we ourselves have done this to our people.
Most of my hindu friends who travel abroad have stopped visiting gurudwaras there. they visit when in India. they say they are afraid because most of the talk or katha there is about elections in gurudwara or why sikh dharam is greater than Krishna's teachings, etc. Whereas Guru gave his head to protect the worshipping rights of people worshipping idols, etc. A sikh believes that everyone has a right to worship god as he wishes.
There is no solution to this except a sangat of a brahamgyani. I was blessed to be in sangat of great Gurmukhs. Common man wants boons, happiness for family, whereas the pracharaks want praise and money. Gyani Maskeenji used to say that it use to pain him to the core to see the gyanis and pracharaks full of ego when he visited Gurusthans for katha's.
I really apologise if I have hurt feeling of anyone. I truly feel our focus should be "JAPOH TA EKO NAAMA, AWAR NIRAFAL KAAMA", apart from earning livelihood honestly and sharing with needy. This journey is too small and we have been blessed to get a human body for self realisation.

Gaganjeet,
Finally, I am really very happy to see a person whose thinking exactly matches my thinking. Reading your comment seemed as if I am speaking myself. This cannot be real bro, so much of similarity in our thoughts and then you also mentioned Panth Rattan Sant Singh Maskeenji whose knowledge and tuks were astounding till date I can bet no preacher has come close to him.. I am happy that there are indeed people in the community who do think rationally and do not blame RSS for every thing wrong that is happening with Sikhs and do rejoice listening to other thoughts (like Sadguru in your case).

There is an urgent need to address all such issues brother. Seriously I feel that community is being misguided at large and many people are being fooled to buy some arguments. In this scenario org. like 3ho, basics of Sikhi can be of really good help. It's a sad reality what your Hindu friends say about visiting some Gurdwaras in Abroad. Where Nindas are happening under the very nose of our Guru, Bhai Nand lal in his Tankhnama says quoting Guru Gobind Singhji that "khaalasaa Soi Jo Nindaa Tiaagay" meaning Khalsa is the one, who renounces criticisms and just see what is happening in Gurdwaras in the name of preaching Khalsa Panth.. May Akal Purakh save us all from this menace
Unfortunately some opportunist politicians have made a section of Sikh community to believe that Hindu bashing, India bashing and socio-religious Hindu organisations bashing make them real or better Sikhs.
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