Is tolerance of intolerance really tolerance, or is it ...

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Re: Is tolerance of intolerance really tolerance, or is it .

Post by ImperfectSikh »

sikhing guidance wrote:Imperfect Sikh,

Just read your post and i just cannot fathom how someone who was supposedly a "strict sikh" could give up her faith so easily?? Its, again, sad and infuriating at the same time. I would rather die than give up sikhi, i mean look at the sahibzadhay...what a noble example and at such a young age..
I do not think she gave it up easily. Love has a strong claim on human heart, and in this case, she put it above her love for the beauty of Sikhism (and its freedom from intolerance). It was her choice, and she had a perfect right to exercise it.

Yet, if the mindset displayed by AM can be extrapolated to the case of the sahibzaday (and that case has very little to compare with, in my cousin's case), perhaps Guru Gobind Singh Ji would have been expected to find a Qazi to help convert his kids to Islam, to prove his tolerance bona fides !

Again..if we dont teach our children sikhi...who will? Why isnt it a parents duty to propogate sikhi??? It really upsets me when i see 20+ sikhs who cant even name all 11 gurus (let alone in order), yet u have muslim children who are so well versed in their religion and stick with it. Its because of deluded thinking, as exhibited by AM that allows this.

AM i believe u are married to a i can understand ur sentiments..but i dont think its good enough to just teach ur child to be a good person etc..we all need something to believe in..and a way of life to follow..believing that all religions are equal is nice..but u cant take 2 paths simultaneously to reach one destination..its impossible.
I will add some comments here.

Its not just a matter of teaching Sikhi (important as that is). Its a matter of making sure that values of tolerance of the right of other people to live their spiritual lives as they see fit (without considering them to be subhumans waiting to be "saved") are passed on to the kids and grandkids so that they never look at any human being as being subhuman merely due to an accident of birth or choice. Sikhism is not the only religion that has such ideas. Most Indian religions have similar views, as do many sects of Judaism, etc.

However, we live in a world where the two largest religions (Christianity and Islam, historically spread through conquest and force), have no use for such ideas (and consider them to be a mark of moral confusion, if not mortal sin).

In inter-religious marriages (which is not the kind of marriage that my cousin is in - she is a member of an intolerant worldview) that involve either of Christianity / Islam (ignoring the specific prescriptions that the latter lays in the matter) with one of the more tolerant faiths (be it Sikhism, or Buddhism, sects of Judaism, etc.) and any other religion, the person of the other faith ends up being disrespected (if they do not convert).

That is why I stated earlier that inter-religious marriages where one of the partners is a committed Christian or Muslim cannot work at all.
I have to agree with Imperfect sikh...i feel that this conversation is falling on deaf ears..
Imperfect sikh..have u had a real conversation with your cousin..does she regret her decision at all? is she happy or is she just going through the motions???
It is neither my place nor my desire to discuss anything of this sort with her (its an intrusion into the personal life of a person who no longer shares certain values with me). I am cordial without being friendly. Her happiness (or its lack) is a matter of her personal choices.
Lee Douglas
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Re: Is tolerance of intolerance really tolerance, or is it .

Post by Lee Douglas »

ImperfectSikh ji,

I have accused your thinking on this matter as bound up in ego, now it is true, we are all in the same boat regards ego, yes sir we surly are.

However I do wish to speak to you of Sikhi, and God, and such stuff.

Please answer me this if you would.

What in your view is the essance of what Shiki is?
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