How do ensure democracy in Gurdwaras

[UPSingh]

Dear Readers,

Gur Fateh.

More and more Gurdwara mangements are becoming authoritative and autocratic especially in the USA and in Canada. i am not aware of the situation in other countries, but based on media news and newspaper reports, the situation in India is even worse.

In Canada except for a few, most Gurdwaras are private although they have charitable institution tax numbers etc. The commitees are made up those who founded the Gurdwaras and put up the initial cash. When these founders become old, their children take over as in the case of private ownership. No elections are held and no public or sangat input is considered welcome. In some Gurdwaras they have a group of trustees (Panj Pyaras) that appoints the commitee to run the day to day affairs. They only accept your cash and they decide to represent the Sikhs in the media and at ceremonial events. These owners have their own agenda and understanding of what makes a good Sikh and they decide what is practiced as Sikhi in their private Gurdwara.

We live in Year 2010 and surely there must be a way to make these gurdwaras answerable to the Sangat of the city or municipality where they are situated. In fightig results in expensive and long drawn out legal fights which are paid for by Sangat money but the Sangat has no say.

Is there a way that this registration of societies which results in private ownership can be prevented? Are Gurdwaras supposed to be private. I feel every Sikh should make sure that they do not go to Gurdwaras which refuse to hold annual elections where sangat are invited to vote. Any views on this ??

UPSingh

[Amrit.S]

Gurdwara's should not be private, and the sangat should have a say.

I've seen gurdwara's spend hundreds thousands of dollars of the sangat's money on lawyers on their cases and a committee member of a gurdwara stealing money when he is counting it.

[Kuldip S. Virdi]

Gurudwara is Guru's ghar and all Sikhs have equal rights and responsibilities in it. However, if a particular Gurudwara's management is treating it as their personal property, the Sikh Sangat have choice of voting with their 'feet' by not going to that particular Gurudwara and it will become what it really is a personal gurudwara of those who are treating like that. It may require Sangat to drive some more distance to reach a more democratic gurudwara.

However, the fact of the matter is that most of the management committees or their Presidents do tend to perpetuate themselves for eternity and would like to pass the position to their progenies whether they helped susbstantially in setting up the Gurudwara or they came into it later. The solution is being vigilant and not let such individual reach a stage when it becomes too big issue in ejecting them. Again, only action sangat can take is by going to t an alternative Gurudwara, as the management can not survive without the continuous support and participation of the sangat.

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji KI Fateh,

Kuldip Singh

[Jas4raj]

Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji Ki Phateh,
Let me play devil's advocate here.
What makes elections fair in a Gurduara?
What if 80% of the "sangat" is mona, alcohol drinking who only practice selective teachings of Guru Sahib, and say they vote for someone like them to be president? Does that make any improvements than what you see right now? Although I am all for democracy, it is not perfect either.
Guru's sangat historically has worked on consensus basis, where respected Gursikhs would select and propose to sangat a new deserving Jathedaars or committee members who would then be approved by all sangat.
What we have now is mostly a joke, where many times the Selection committees or candidates barely follow Guru's teachings (Baani and Baana).
Anyway, my humble suggestion is if you see something that is wrong, dont just sit back and complain. Stand up to the problem and take it head on. Ask Guru Sahib for blessings, follow his directions and hope for the best. Go and be involved in the committee and work on improving it, be a role models and show others how to do things properly.
If you can do that, my hats off to you.

Gur Rakha.

[UPSingh]

Jus4raj wrote:

"Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji Ki Phateh,
Let me play devil's advocate here.
What makes elections fair in a Gurduara?
What if 80% of the "sangat" is mona, alcohol drinking who only practice selective teachings of Guru Sahib, and say they vote for someone like them to be president? Does that make any improvements than what you see right now? Although I am all for democracy, it is not perfect either.
Guru's sangat historically has worked on consensus basis, where respected Gursikhs would select and propose to sangat a new deserving Jathedaars or committee members who would then be approved by all sangat.
What we have now is mostly a joke, where many times the Selection committees or candidates barely follow Guru's teachings (Baani and Baana).
Anyway, my humble suggestion is if you see something that is wrong, dont just sit back and complain. Stand up to the problem and take it head on. Ask Guru Sahib for blessings, follow his directions and hope for the best. Go and be involved in the committee and work on improving it, be a role models and show others how to do things properly.
If you can do that, my hats off to you."

Nothing is perfect except Waheguru, the ultimate truth.

Even If less than 50% of Sangat is Mona, then as long as the sangat vote for a Mona President, let there be a Mona Presidennt. That is what democracy is all about.

If Gurdwaras must have a Keshadhari president even where 80% of Sangat is Mona, then the president is no longer representing the Sangat unless the majority vote for him in an election.

The Sangat can be Mona, Punjabi or Gora or whatever. I am told in Phoenix a new Punjabi managed Gurdwara has bee set up very close to the old Gurdwara where the mangement is mainly Gora Sikhs. I do not think that is good either. Gurdwaras are for Sikhs not Punjabi Sikhs?

The question really is can we run our Gurdwaras democratically or should they be run by private trusts like some Gurdwaras are run in BC. They do not represent anyone except a few families who are autocratic leaders of the Sikhs. Not very good?


UPSingh

[Jas4raj]

UP SIngh ji,
Again I ask, does what the majority want make it right? If the Majority wants alcohol served in Gurduara, are you going to say yes that what the majority wants, lets serve whisky in a Gurduara?
Sikhi is not based on what the Majority wants, Sikhi is based on giving up our self and following the Guru's path and following a disciplined life. The person representing the Gurduara (whether a jathedar or president or whoever) should serve the interest of the Guru and propogate Sikhi and not self interests or interests of the few influencial people/families. Yes he/she should consider the issues/demands of sangat, but that does not mean to bow down to demands that are Anti-Sikhi.

You stated, "The question really is can we run our Gurdwaras democratically or should they be run by private trusts like some Gurdwaras are run in BC"
I say neither. They should be run with the sole purpose to Propogate Sikhi and Guru Sahib's teachings and the people running those institutions should be themselves practising Sikhs - not the ones who call themselves Sikhs and indulge in Kuraihits. Gurduaras are Sikh institutions to be run by Sikhs to serve all Sikhs/non-sikhs alike. But serving everyone does not mean everyone being served has the right to run a Gurduara.

Rab Rakha.

[Varinder Singh]

Brother,

I totally understand your view point regarding how Gurdwara management "passes on the baton". For the most cases, here in the UK it seems to me to be the same.

Here in the UK if you're a registered charity (with a number) you have to have a Board of Trustees. These trustees then act as the legal Guardians of the charities tangible and intangible assets. These trustees may or may not always have a day to day operational role. In a normal charity members of the trustee board are elected and appointed after a series of interviews are held.

It would be interesting if somebody who perhaps is currently on a Gurdwara's board could tell how in their Gurdwara appointment of a new Trustee is carried out.

Varinder Singh

[Jas4raj]

Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji Ki Phateh.

Here is another example of why democracy is not necessarily the right answer for Gurduara...

http://www.panthic.org/articles/5258

[UPSingh]

Dear Readers,

Gur Fateh

I am afraid several postings have suggested that in democratic situations Monas may chose to elect a committee and allow alcohol etc. etc.

I am afraid I do not agree with this form of sarcasm. All good Sikhs whether they are Monas or Sabat Soorat Sikhs have respect for our religion and for our institutions and would never do any act that would be so low.

Equally what is to prevent a Sabat soorat Sikh to take Gurdwara funds and use them for his own personal advantage or to be arrogant and abusive?

Let us be reasonable in our discussion!

The question is not about Monas or Saroop Sikhs, but the question is Should Gurdwara mangement be answerable to the sangat members. I have seen many Gurdwaras where they try to select committee members who are chosen by a few special choudharies who select others they consider as better members of sangat. They inevitably select their own brothers or sons etc. My son is the best Sikh right?

I for one prefer proper elections where Sangat elects those who provide good leadership to all Sikhs, Monas or not is not the question. Should all Gurdwaras be owned by Sangat or should people be allowed to make them their personal property?

Sikh Daas,

UPSingh

[Jas4raj]

All good Sikhs whether they are Monas or Sabat Soorat Sikhs have respect for our religion and for our institutions and would never do any act that would be so low.

Please refer to my last posting .... that is exactly what the so called "Mona SIkhs" did.
And at same time we can find several examples of so called "Amritdhari Sikhs" in SGPC/DGPC doing equally disgracing things.

Anyways UP Singh ji,

I have no hatred or ill feeling towards Monas. I have all types of freinds. I try to respect Sikhs, Monas, Muslims, non-believers etc etc equally. I will speak up in the same manner against Sikhs, Monas, Muslims, non-believers etc etc if they show disrespect to our Guru Sahib and Sikh Institutions.

I am just expressing my opinion that democracy is not necessarily the best solution for Gurduaras. I am sure we can find many successful examples and failures too, but elections/voting only succeeds in creating a divide amongst the sangat, and thats why a selection process with consensus of the sangat is taken should be the process to select leaders/sevadaars to run our institutions - just like how the Sarbat Khalsa model was created.

You also said, "...who provide good leadership to all Sikhs, Monas or not is not the question."
One of the major traits of a Good Leader is to lead by example. Please tell me, what would be the impact of lets say a Mona clean shaven person stand up in Guru Sahib's presence and lecture that Guru Gobind Singh ji's baani says "Rehat piyari mujh ko, Sikh piyara nahi", and he encourages sangat members to take Amrit and follow Guru Sahib's teachings?
At the same time to appease you, I will throw in an example of a Sabar Surat Sikh, who lectures that we must come early to Gurduara, Asa Di Vaar starts at 6am, and everyone should attend, and he himself does not come in till 8am?

Do we need good leadership? I fully agree. But same time, the good leadership should also be able to propagate Sikhi in a Gurduara - not just by preaching, but by walking the walk and acting as a sevadaar of the Sangat and not their Dictator.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.