Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Postby himmat_singh » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:36 pm

Ek OnKaar Sat Naam

sikh_13 wrote:my question continues -
'will real sikhism survive'

my question is - why am i today attracted by islam - as a brotherhood - as a religion - WHY???


When you say you are attracted to Islam, then you are not interested in survival of Sikhi anyway. Islamic zealots have in the past sought to completely destroy Sikhi, under the guise of Islam, as well as trying to destroy other faiths.

Sikhi itself is simply not failing, and will never fail. It is based on eternal truths, enshrined in SGGS ji. Practices might come and go, or evolve, and there may be some malpractices along the way that are out of accord with Bani; sikhi might even run under other names. The eternal truths that underly it will persist. They are based on humility, common decency, highest moral standards, ideal ways to satisfy individuals' minds even in times of great distress, as well as service of one's community. As long as mankind is around, no-one need fear any loss of Sikhi. Mankind is a social animal that will always need the services of the cornerstones embedded in Sikhi and all evident in Sikhi.

I think you have answered all your previous questions with this disclosure, that you are tempted by Islam, and IMHO it is a good point to close/lock this unmoderated thread, as your questions can be answered by introspection and comparing the two faiths for yourself. There have been many responses on this thread to your questions but as you are tempted by Islam, perhaps in ignorance of Sikh history, sacrifices and persecution, then there is no point in being concerned about your concern for Sikhi. If you are tempted you should go, taste it, and see if it is greener on the other side of the fence ( pardon the pun).

Thanks for your concern for sikhi, sikh_13 ji.

Sat Sri Akal
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Postby sikh_13 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:09 am

Dear Mr. Himat Ji,

I understand the pain of hearing such a thing. I too feel very bad when our children / brothers / sisters follow ritual prohibited by our religion. My point about being attracted by islam came from the concept of brotherhood so strongly exhibited by the followers of that religion while we have largely lost the trait. I would again repeat - sikhs need to stand by for fellow sikhs. I would not like to discuss personal experience but I can assure you that had I been tempted that way I would have lost the path long back. Anyway - i like your strong reaction and could sense the feelings. I think put more simply, this debate is between the strong materialistic intent exhibited by the followers of sikhism and weakening of the fundamentals.

Anyway - thanks everyone for the inputs. The conclusion that I can draw is - sikhism needs a purist movement wherein all the fence sitters, self-centric social and political leaders and institutions are pushed out of mainstream and more pure form of sikhism is widely practised by the followers. Those who exploit this rich religion need to make way and the followers need to be absolutely clear about the fundamentals and practices.

It is true that a religion enriched with such strong principles and values and strengthened by selfless sacrifice of Gurus and Singhs and Singhnis will never die - even though it would go through some testing time.

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh !!!
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Postby sikh_13 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:52 am

Dear Himmat Singh Sahab,

My envy for islam started from my experiences...in Punjab, Kashmir and Afganistan (i have 'served' at these places).

They dont kill their brothers/fathers/sons for money ---------- Punjab does.
They dont RUN for cash - 'sardars' do......

Watching the movie on 'Baba Banda Singh Bahadur' I realised few things...

Firstly...Sikhs have to stand up for themselves '5 would count to 6 lacs .... may my Guru's blessings be there'.

WE need to treat our brother/sisters the same way.

What is age of 9/7.....? My Desham Pita's Sons did not shake ------ why are we shaking?

My simple quest....

Maintain your identity (Sabak Saroop).
Worship only one GOD. No devi/devtas.
Dont forget 84!!!

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fathe !!!
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Postby sherepunjab » Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:36 pm

sikh_13 wrote:Dear Himmat Singh Sahab,

My envy for islam started from my experiences...in Punjab, Kashmir and Afganistan (i have 'served' at these places).

They dont kill their brothers/fathers/sons for money ---------- Punjab does.
They dont RUN for cash - 'sardars' do......

Watching the movie on 'Baba Banda Singh Bahadur' I realised few things...

Firstly...Sikhs have to stand up for themselves '5 would count to 6 lacs .... may my Guru's blessings be there'.

WE need to treat our brother/sisters the same way.

What is age of 9/7.....? My Desham Pita's Sons did not shake ------ why are we shaking?

My simple quest....

Maintain your identity (Sabak Saroop).
Worship only one GOD. No devi/devtas.
Dont forget 84!!!

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fathe !!!


sikh_13 ji,
If you are dreaming an islam type of sikhism then your ideology is against basic teaching of sikhi.

If this is the kind of sikhs and sikhi you are dreaming of then I am pretty sure that sikhism will not survive.

You sound to be not knowing the history of islamic rulers. They have killed, jailed and exiled parents and siblings for throne.

You claim to have served in afghanistan, kashmir and punjab but you do not know that their deeds have ruined the lives of millions of innocent muslims and others who are parents, siblings of some ones.

May waheguru give summat to you.
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Postby Yugrajveer Singh Chauhan » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:33 am

In today's world all organised religions and religionists are on the scanners of western powers. Secondly people of modern world regardless of their religious faith are least interested in religious matters. Countries hosting religions other than sikhism have advantage of being of strategic (israel)or economic(muslim nations) interests of western powers or they are strong and numerically superior on their own. None of these advantage applies to sikhs. As long as sikhs are part of India there is no threat to sikhism. India has become or becoming a global player which will guarantee protection to her citizens and their religions/religious practices all over the world. It is impossible for sikhs and sikhism to survive as an independent nation/people as they are not of any strategic or economic interest of western powers. It is their indian passports and background which give them different recognition from islamic hardliners in western world. Sikh gurus and later their follower sikhs have contributed a lot in protecting hindu religion and in freedom from mughals and britishers, so they deserve this privilege.
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Postby sikh_13 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:51 am

Two points here.

Firstly it is natural and convenient to pick holes in the subject's history/practices (in this case muslims rulers). I was just trying to bring about the concept of brotherhood and loyalty towards their religion when i brought in the example. Just to re-visit the point - sikh high priest at the time of 'operation bluestar' declared on the national television (immediately after the operation) from the parikarma of Golden Temple that Darbar Sahib and Akal Thakt were not damaged. My experience says such a thing (lie) is not possible in the religion i referred to. I understand that same would have been done under pressure - but buckling under pressure is weakness. This point can be discussed at length but we need to understand the power of unity/brotherhood. Such incidents are witnessed on daily basis (recent case of demolition of a masjid in south delhi is a case to point - under pressure the government has admitted the mistake and promised to rebuilt it).

Secondly i do not agree with the pre-requisite of having a strong socio-political ground to be able to survive. As a matter of fact - sikhism is a true example of 'rise' of weaker sections of the society. The same cowardly people evolved into most respected and feared fighters after they came into the fold of sikhism. Sikhs actually never enjoyed a strong socio-politico-economic position but attained it through their hard work and valour. Isreal is classical example of the same wherein a community pushed to the wall has hit back and held its ground by building a nation brick by brick, colony by colony.

My point was centered around the threats to sikhism today. And these threats are all internal. It is the internal weakening that magnifies the significance of outer dangers and thus the damage. As repeatedly highlighted, the first threat is in form of a vision-less, confused, self-centered leadership. Second threat is mad race towards monetary goals, leaving the religion values aside. Thirdly it is the lack of unity. The threat is that sikhism would sink/merge into a parallel religion (hinduism). And if and when any challenges come, the sikhs would not be able to fight back. Firstly cos they would have failed to create a position to do the same and secondly cos they would have picked up all the traits. Please note that, I dont mean to devalue or disgrace hinduism. It was just the comparision i was trying to draw between islam and hinduism.

I agree that sikhism would not die cos lots and lots of people would like to be associated with a religion with such glorious history and value, even if they dont practice the basis teaching of the same.


Guru Fateh !!!
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Postby sikh_13 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:32 am

Fateh !!!

Some of the events in last few days/weeks happening in indian Sub Continent are pertinent to the question posted here. Firstly, Osama was killed. And secondly a very senior leader of a majority religion in india escaped in 'women's clothes' (he is still in the same. No questions ---- just an observation....

Next was a drive to nearby town - a cop requesting lift - a talk - an experience........he concluded - sir, yeh (muslims in area of nuh district of haryana) sab hindu hote the) - they were all hindus (muslims of nuh area in haryana). Now we cant enter their areas.......?? no questions - just an observation...

Yesterday something happened in Delhi..... today a very very senior leader of the movement addressed the press conference in white ladies suit ......

.......he claimed he was to be killed.....

sounds strange...

.....72 bullet wounds and no words ..... just - Feteh!!!


.....SIKHISM (KHALSA) will survive !!!
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Postby KaurPrincess » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:03 pm

i think sikhi will survive, i mean look at how many different groups of people have tried to get rid of sikhi, but failed
at times numbers were dangerously low, and sikhs had to live in jungles to escape being killed, but we always survived
we are the only major religion without our own country, but are still thriving
yes there are many problems facing the sikh community, but then again, every community has their own issues to deal with too
we just need to keep working hard and stay hopeful and keep our faith in guru ji
(random quote - i'll change it every so often)

"The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're still a rat!"
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Postby Lee Douglas » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:48 am

Agian I find I must answer this way.

Who cares? If Shiki dies then it dies, and in doing so must be according to Gods will.

Sikhi is merley a path. There have been other paths before Sikhi, I have no doubt others will pop up too.

When I go home, if one path is restricted to me, I find another way.

Why are we worried more about the route than the destination?
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Postby wgill » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:11 pm

Lee Douglas wrote:Agian I find I must answer this way.

Who cares? If Shiki dies then it dies, and in doing so must be according to Gods will.

Sikhi is merley a path. There have been other paths before Sikhi, I have no doubt others will pop up too.

When I go home, if one path is restricted to me, I find another way.

Why are we worried more about the route than the destination?


Sikhi will never die! The reason is that the foundation stone was laid by Guru Nanak Dev Ji (Almighty Lord). Moreover wait and watch! Khalsa Rise and Rule in few years time!
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