Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

[sajjansingh]

I believe that all organized religions are having hard time in keeping their existence. The fanatics in all religions mostly control the money and organizations and same goes for the Sikhism. They are very well funded and very good at creating confusions. The flow of money in Gurdwaras is a very big problem. The big businessmen are mostly involved in Gurdwara management to get tax benefits and to control and use money. This creates yearly political drama for us to watch for free.

We have the following major threats as per my observation.

1.Communist Sikhs - They are very smart and not our everyday average Joe. They are very educated and master at creating confusions.
2.Fanatics -- They are just what we call the throne grabber. They see religion as their own private property and try to set rules which everybody must follow. They have attitude of either their way or freeway.
3.Government involvement through intelligence agencies. They have huge budget and can buy Sikhs. They use these Sikhs for various parties and politics and also to create confusions.
4.The attitude of isolation where everything which doesn't suit our views just turns into Anti-Sikh activity.
5.Lack of comparative studies of science and other traditions and religions.
6. The lack of worldwide Sikhs gatherings same as "Kumbh Da Mela" .....

[sikh_13]

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh !

Firstly, I thank the moderators for letting this thread flow (even though with some comments).

Secondly, I thank the contributors for giving their valuable input alongwith their some hard comments on the issue - thank you ladies and gentlemen!

Thirdly, I also thank the supporters of the thought 'sikhs are hindus' school - I appreciate - U r everywhere !!!

Dear Sangat Ji:

My questions were directed with an aim of finding some answers!

- Why is sikhism (such a strong religion) been infected with so mach self seeking set of people (political leaders, religious organiser, materialistic followers)
-Why is hinduism so insecure that they dont accept us as a seperate religion (coincidence is that they are always the sufferers and we just rescued the sufferers) - and why do they feel so insecure about us (Sab toh wala ghalughara and events before/after that relates).
-why does our present generation (youth) not have the same spirit (n why are they so addicted to evils) as our forefathers and also some of us?

I agree - Sikhism is a religion with a philosophy way ahead of times - so it would not only survive but also flourish all over the world! I have no doubt over the religious /spirutal values - but only about the identity - the 'ORIGINAL' thought!

I request the moderators to let this thread continue!

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Gure Ji Ki Fateh !!!

[sajjansingh]

Why is hinduism so insecure that they dont accept us as a seperate religion (coincidence is that they are always the sufferers and we just rescued the sufferers) - and why do they feel so insecure about us (Sab toh wala ghalughara and events before/after that relates).

Hinduism is set of beliefs and not one organized religion. You should at least try to cite few references for that insecure belief within Hinduism. You are talking about thousands of beliefs and millions of people, when you use "Hinduism" term to label them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

We just want to blame more than 800 millions people called Hindus for 20 millions divided "Sikhs" worldwide. We don't understand that most of the problems Sikhs brought themselves. You may want to explore few major traditions of Hindus and they all differ from each other. This is the reason, I mentioned lack of comparative studies in my previous post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaishnava

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaivism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaktism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartism

[tejpalsingh]

sikh_13,
I think the speech below by a muslim is not irrelvent or off-topic.

SPEECH: JAVED AKHTAR



I am quite sure ladies and gentlemen, that in this august assembly nobody would envy my position at this moment. Speaking after such a charismatic and formidable personality like Sri Sri Ravi Shankar is like coming out of the pavilion to play after Tendulkar has made a sparkling century. But in some weak moment I had committed myself.

There are certain things that I would like to make very clear at the very outset. Don’t get carried away by my name – Javed Akhtar. I am not revealing a secret, I am saying something that I have said many times, in writing or on TV, in public…I am an atheist, I have no religious beliefs. And obviously I don’t believe in spirituality of some kind. Some kind.

Another thing. I am not standing here to criticize, analyze, or attack this gentleman who is sitting here. We have a very pleasant, civilized relation. I have always found him to be an extremely courteous person.

One is talking about an idea, an attitude, a mindset. Not any individual.

I must tell you that when Rajeev opened this session, for a moment I felt that I have come to the wrong place. Because, if we are discussing the philosophy of Krishan and Gautam and Kabir, Vivekanand, then I have nothing to say. I can sit down right now. I am not here to discuss a glorious past of which I suppose every Indian is proud, and rightly so. I am here to discuss a dubious present.

India Today has invited me and I have come here to talk of spirituality today. Let’s not be confused by this word spirituality, you can find two people with the same name and they can be totally different people. Ram Charit Manas was written by Tulsidas. And the television film has been made by Ramanand Sagar. Ramayan is common but I don’t think it would be very wise to club Tulsidas with Ramanand Sagar. I remember, when he had written Ramcharit Manas, he had faced a kind of a social boycott. How could he write a holy book in such a language like Avadhi? Sometimes I wonder fundamentalists of all hues and all colors, religions and communities…how similar they are. In 1798, a gentleman called Shah Abdul Qadir, in this very city, for the first time translated Quran in Urdu, and all the ulemas of that time gave fatwa against him that how could he translate this holy book in such a heathen language.
When Tulsi wrote Ramcharit Manas and he was boycotted, I remember a chowpai that he had written.
“Dhut kaho abdhut kaho rajput kaho ki julawa kohu
Kohu ki beti se beta na biahab, kohu ki jaat bigaar na chahu
Mang ke khaibo, mehjid ma raihbo, lebe ka ek na debe ka dohu”

Ramanand Sagar, when he made his television serial, he made millions. I am not undermining him, but obviously he is much lower in the rung.

I will give you another example. Perhaps it would be more direct and more appropriate. Gautam came out of a palace and went into wilderness to find the truth. But nowadays we see, the modern age gurus, come out of the wilderness and wind up in the palaces. They are moving in the opposite direction. We can’t talk of them in the same breath. So let us not hide behind names which are dear and respectable for every Indian.

When I was invited to give this talk, I felt that yes, I am an atheist, try to be a rationalist in any given situation, Maybe that’s why I have been called. But suddenly I have realized that there is another quality that I share with Modern Age gurus. I work in films. We have lot in common. Both of us, sell dreams, both of us create illusions, both of us create icons, but with a difference. After three hours we put a placard – the end. Go back to reality. They don’t.

So ladies and gentlemen, let me make it very clear that I have come to talk of this spirituality that has a supermarket in the world. Arms, drugs and spirituality – these are the three big businesses in the world. But in arms and drugs you really have to do something, give something. That’s the difference. Here you don’t have to give anything.

In this supermarket you get instant Nirvana, Moksha by mail, a crash course in self realization, cosmic consciousness in four easy lessons. This supermarket has its chain all over the world, where the restless elite buy spiritual fast food. I am talking about this spirituality.

Plato in his dialogues has said many a wise thing, and one of them is – before starting any discussion decide on the meanings of words. Let us try to decide on the meaning of this word spirituality. Does it mean love for mankind that transcends all religion, caste, creed, race? Is that so? Then I have no problem. Except that I call it humanity. Does it mean love of plants, trees, mountains, oceans, rivers, animals? The non-human world? If that is so, again I have no problem at all. Except that I call it environmental consciousness. Does spirituality mean heartfelt regard for social institutions like marriage, parenthood, fine arts, judiciary, freedom of expression. I have no problem again sir, how can I disagree here? I call it civil responsibility. Does spirituality mean going into your own world trying to understand the meaning of your own life? Who can object on that? I call it self-introspection, self assessment. Does spirituality mean Yoga? Thanks to Patanjali, who has given us the details of Yoga, Yam, Yatam, aasan, pranayam…We may do it under any name, but if we are doing pranayam, wonderful. I call it health-care. Physical fitness.

Now is it a matter of only semantics. If all this is spirituality, then what is the discussion. All these words that I have used are extremely respectable and totally acceptable words. There is nothing abstract or intangible about them. So why stick to this word spirituality? What is there in spirituality that has not been covered by all these words? Is there something? If that is so then what is that?

Somebody in return can ask me what is my problem with this word. I am asking to change it, leave it, drop it, make it obsolete but why so? I will tell you what is my reservation. If spirituality means all this then there is no discussion. But there is something else which makes me uneasy. In a dictionary, the meaning of spirituality is rooted in a word called “spirit”. When mankind didn’t know whether this earth is round or flat, he had decided that human beings are actually the combination of two things. Body and spirit. Body is temporary, it dies. But the spirit is, shall I say, non-biodegradable. In your body you have a liver and heart and intestines and the brain, but since the brain is a part of the body, and mind lies within the brain, it is inferior because ultimately the brain too shall die with the body, but don’t worry, you are not going to die, because you are your spirit, and the spirit has the supreme consciousness that will remain, and whatever problem you have is because you listen to your mind. Stop listening to your mind. Listen to your spirit - the supreme consciousness that knows the cosmic truth. All right. It’s not surprising that in Pune there is an ashram and I used to go there. I loved the oratory. On the gate of the lecture hall there was a placard. Leave your shoes and minds here. There are other gurus who don’t mind if you carry your shoes. But minds?…sorry.

Now, if you leave your mind what do you do? You need the Guru to find the next station of consciousness. That hides somewhere in the spirit. He has reached the supreme consciousness, he knows the supreme truth. But can he tell you. No sir, he cannot tell you. So can you find out on your own? No sir, you need the guru for that. You need him but he cannot guarantee that you will know the ultimate truth… and what is that ultimate truth? What is the cosmic truth? Relating to cosmos? I have really not been able to understand that. The moment we step out of the solar system the first star is Alpha Centuari. It is just four light years away. How do I relate to that!! What do I do!!

So the emperor is wearing robes that only the wise can see. And the emperor is becoming bigger and bigger. And there are more and more wise people who are appreciating the robe.

I used to think that actually spirituality is the second line of defence for the religious people. When they get embarrassed about traditional religion, when it starts looking too down-market, they hide behind this smokescreen of cosmos and super consciousness. But that is not the complete truth. Because the clientele of traditional religion and spirituality is different. You take the map of the world, you start marking places which are extremely religious, within India or outside India, Asia, Latin America, Europe…wherever. You will find that wherever there is lot of religion there is lack of human rights. There is repression. Anywhere. Our Marxist friends used to say that religion is the opium of poor masses, the sigh of the oppressed. I don’t want to get into that discussion. But spirituality nowadays is definitely the tranquilizer of the rich.



You see that the clientele is well heeled, it is the affluent class. Alright, so the guru gets power, high self esteem, status, wealth…(which is not that important), power…and lot of wealth too. What does the disciple get? When I looked at them carefully I realized that there are categories and categories of these disciples. It’s not a monolith. There are different kinds of followers. Different kinds of disciples. One, who is rich, successful, doing extremely well in his life, making money, gaining property. Now, since he has everything he wants absolution too. So guru tells him - whatever you are doing, is “niskaam karma” – you are playing a role, this is all “Maya”, the money that you are making everyday and the property that you are acquiring, you are not emotionally involved with it. You are just playing a role. You come to me because you are in search of eternal truth. Maybe your hands are dirty, but your spirit and soul are pure. And this man, he starts feeling wonderful about himself. For seven days he is exploiting the world, and at the end of the seven days when he goes and sits at the feet of the guru, he feels – I am a sensitive person.

There is another category. That too comes from the affluent class. But he is not the winner like the first one. You know winning or losing that is also relative. A rickshaw-wallah if he is gambling on the pavement and wins hundred rupees will feel victorious, and if a corporate man makes only 300 million dollars, while his brother is a billionaire, he will feel like a failure. Now, what does this rich failure do? He needs a guru to tell him – who says that you have failed? You have other worlds, you have another vision, you have other sensibility that your brother doesn’t have. He thinks that he is successful…wrong. The world is very cruel, you know. The world tells you honestly, no sir, you have got three out of ten. The other person has seven out of ten. Fair. They will treat you that way and they will meet you that way. There he gets compassion. There he plays another game.

Another category. And I will talk about this category not with contempt or with any sense of superiority, not any bitterness, but all the compassion available one that is a very big client of this modern day guru and today’s spirituality, is the unhappy rich wife.

Here is a person who put all her individuality, aspirations and dreams, and her being at the altar of marriage and in return she got an indifferent husband. Who at the most gave her a couple of children. Who is rather busy with his work, or busy with other women. This woman needs a shoulder. She knows that she is an existential failure. There is nothing to look forward to. She has a vacuous, empty, comfortable yet purposeless life. It’s sad, but it is true.

Then there are other people. Who are suddenly traumatized. They lose a child. The wife dies. The husband dies. Or they lose the property, they lose their business. Something happens that shocks them and they ask – why me? So who do they ask? They go to the Guru. And the guru tells him that this is Karma. But there is another world if you follow me. Where there is no pain. Where there is no death. Where there is immortality. Where there is only bliss. He tells all these unhappy souls – follow me and I will take you to the heaven, to the paradise, where there is no pain. I am sorry sir, it is disappointing but true that there is no such paradise. Life will always have a certain quota of pain, of hurts, a possibility of defeats. But they do get some satisfaction.

Somebody may ask me if they are feeling better, if they are getting peace then what is your problem. It reminds me of a story that I have read. It’s an old Indian story told by a sage, that a hungry dog finds a dry bone and tries to eat it and in the process bites its own tongue. And the tongue is bleeding and the dog feels that he is getting nourishment from the bone.

I feel sad. I don’t want them, these adults, to behave like this because I respect them. Drugs and alcohol are also supposed to give mental peace and serenity, but is that kind of piece or serenity desirable or advisable? The answer is no. Any mental peace that is not anchored in rational thoughts is nothing but self-deception. Any serenity that takes you away from truth is just an illusion – a mirage. I know that there is a kind of a security in this which is like the security of a tri-cycle. If you are riding a tri-cycle you can’t fall. But adults do not ride tricycles. They ride bi-cycles. They can even fall. It is a part of life.

There is one more kind. Like everybody who is the member of the golf club is not fond of golf. In the same way everybody who is seen in an ashram is not a spiritual person. A film producer who is an ardent follower of a guru, whose ashram is about two hours from Delhi once told me that you must go to my Guru. You will see the who’s who of Delhi there. Let me tell you my Guruji is another Chandraswami in the making. Now this is a contact point for networking.

I have great respect for people who are spiritual, or religious, and in spite of this they are good people. And I have a reason. I believe that like every emotion or feeling, you have a limitation.

I am feeling slightly pressurized about time, can I get another five six minutes please…may I sir… Rajiv Mehrotra “yes you can”

You can see up to a point. And you can’t see further. You can hear up to a point, but beyond that you won’t be able to register sounds. You can mourn up to a point and then you will get over your mourning. You will feel happy up-to a point and then you will be through with your happiness. Same way, I am sure that you have a certain capacity for nobility also. You can be as noble and no more. Now suppose if we count this capacity for nobility in the average man as ten units, now anybody who goes to pray in a mosque five times is consuming his five units, there anybody who goes to the temple or sits in the feet of the Guru, he is consuming his quota of nobility there. And in a totally non-productive manner. I don’t go to pray. I don’t pray. If I don’t go to any guru, or mosque or temple or church, what do I do with my quota of nobility. I will have to help somebody, feed somebody, give shelter to somebody. People who use their quota in worshipping, praying, adoring religious figures and spiritual figures, in spite of that, if they are left with some nobility, hats off to them.

You may ask me, that if I have this kind of ideas about religious people, why should I show such reverence for Krishan and Kabir and Gautam? You can ask me. I’ll tell you why I respect them. These were the great contributors in the human civilization. They were born in different points of time in history, in different situations. But one thing is common in them. They stood up against injustice. They fought for the downtrodden. Whether it was Ravana, or Kansha or the pharaoh or the high priests or the British Samrajya in front of Gandhi – or the communal empire of Firoze Tughlaq in the times of Kabir, they stood against that.

And what surprises me, and confirms my worst feelings, that today, the enlightened people who know the cosmic truth, none of them stand up against the powers that be. None of them raises his voice against the ruling classes and the privileged classes. Charity, yes, when it is approved and cleared by the establishment and the powers that be. But I want to know which was that guru which took the dalits to those temples which are still closed to them. I want to know which was that guru who stood for the rights of the Adivasis against the thekedaars and contractors. I want to know which was that guru who spoke about the victims of Gujarat and went to their relief camps. They are human beings.

Sir…It is not enough to teach the rich how to breathe. It is the rich mans recreation. It is the hypocrites’ pretension. It is a mischievous deception. And you know that in the oxford dictionary, mischievous deception is a term that is used for a word, and that word is…HOAX. Thank you.

[singhboy]

Why again can I ask that sikh women are been outlined in this post. Sikh girl asks guy to cut his hair, sikh girls marrying outside to non sikhs. You got to be kidding me right.

How many marriage here in my own country are occuring were sikh men, yes sikh men a marrying non sikh women just to get residency in Australia.

In regards to cutting hair and shaving it is a two way street. Does the guy not have a brain to make his own choice, he choose to cut and shave the girl did not put the sissors or shaver in his hands.

In regards to the sikh girl and boy spending a night together without been married as before a two way street, the guy can always say no.

Why have you not outlined the increasing amount of girls who are abused by sikh men, or the large amount of dowry sikh families want from the girls families before marriage?


Please could we stop attacking Sikh females, it is a two way street. If you continue like this and blame females for the problems then all you are doing is margilising them. Dont complain then when they marry non sikhs because it seems as a female sikh you must accept all the blame and the male sikh getting off free.

[tejpalsingh]

Will post below help as eye opener ?


Report this postReply with quote Re: Sikh Jat girl wanting to marry out of caste
by StoneCold316 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:16 am

I spent some time living in Vancouver Canada (originally from the UK), but I now live in Los Angeles. I cannot tell you how deeply entrenched the "Sikhs" were in Vancouver over the whole caste system. It was like I'd walked into a black hole and gone 1000 years into the past. These people call themselves Sikh, claim to believe in the religion, yet contradict one of the biggest reasons as to how the Sikh religion came about in the first place. YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THE CASTE SYSTEM!!

In Vancouver, Sikhs are busy shooting each other all over the caste system. If you're jatt and you meet another jatt, that is still not good enough for the folks. You also have to be from the same side of the river. Can you believe that backwards mentality? The RCMP (Canadian version of the FBI) have a dedicated task force set up to tackle all the shootings the Sikhs get up to. All over one thing and one thing alone.. CASTE. It's like a Sikh from North of the Thames cannot associate with a Sikh from south of the Thames. You try telling this to say a white person and watch them look at you as if you're some kind of retard. It's so embarrassing that our people still think like this.

You're going to have to make a grown up decision and decide what it is that you want. If you love this guy, then you got to make the commitment and cut all ties with your folks and be with him. If you cannot do that, then you should tell your other half and let him get on with his life. Hopefully down the road he will meet a real grown up woman and settle down with her. You can't sit there crying and expect some kind of miracle to happen, as you know full well it's not going to.

If you do marry this guy, it'll be WW3 for the first few weeks/months, but once the dust settles your folks will come back to you, begging that you once again be a part of their lives and your new husband. Their ego's will soon deflate.

I always think of that movie "Veer Zaara" when I hear about folks getting their knickers in a twist over this whole caste thing... "ohh whoas me, I'm going to have a heart attack and die". Seriously?

[Kuldip S. Virdi]

Tejpalsingh Jee,

Javed Akhtar states early in his speech that he is an aethesit. Later he exapnds to sas that he does not say his prayeres five times, visit a mosque, a temple or a holy man. He just concludes that the spirtituality is nothing but hoax. Fighting against tyrant, nursing a sick or needy, providing support to the weak is all important.

I would say that our Gurus from Nanak to Gobind Singh Jee, come true on this scale as well and need to be followed rather then worshipped or put on the pedestal. In other words, our Guru's deeds and teachings are superior or at par with all those historically figures who appeared on th earth from time to time.

If we imbibe even these secular non spirtual messages of our Gurus, Sikhism's long term survival is assured.

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, wahe Guru Ji Ki fateh.

Kuldip Singh

[supreme]

Well this is an interesting topic. My thoughts as requested by the initiator are as under:

Sikhism started as a very forward looking, simple and strong religion. Over the years it followed the path shown by the Gurus and made numerous sacrifices on the way to maintain the principles. Needless to debate, they were the 'looked - upon' class and seen as saviours for the down trodden and helpless. Not only did the sikhs battle the powerful enemies, but also strongly resisted various temptations like power, wealth, wine, women, etc. Building built on such strong foundation had to grow and flourish - and so they did. Sikhs (under Hari Singh Nalwa / Ranjit Singh) are the only race to have actually ruled afganistan (where world powers of their times like britishers, soviets, and now americans have failed). This is just a significant example of the glory and power the community attained.

Down the years, for numerous reasons, the sikh community has lost its bearing. After a rather small purist movement in early 80s, the changes have been rather quick. The fact as some of the participants have pointed out is primarily on account of weakening of followers of sikhism. A majority of the sikhs saw the turmoil in punjab during the 80s as a good oppurtunity to 'cash-in'. The 'liquidation drive' was strongly led by sikhs themselves for temptation of money and power. (And it is an acknowledged fact that had sikhs not led this drive, bringing punjab back to 'normal' was impossible). I know of so many innocent people suffering atrocities and loosing their lives for only reason that they followed the sikh faith and carried that identity. This was the side-effect of the money generating mechanism called the 'number game'.

Today's sikh is totally weak and confused. All the original ideas like non-caste based religion, not following the devis/devtas, etc, etc are no more significant. Sikhs today are more (or equally) tempted by money / glamour and other worldly things then any other community. There are strong schools that advocate cutting of hair (and a vast majority of sikhs don't support hair anyway). Ofcourse there are occassional incidents that try to highlighted the seperate identity of the sikhs and all but those are more politically motivated.

In real sense today, sikhs are part of hinduism. The merger is more or less complete. Some may deny it but there is nothing to actually prove it wrong. They follow all the practices of hinduism. So what is the harm in accepting it ??? I know some people will like to disagree but as I said, that is only for their own selfish interests and nothing else. I suggest it is high time that sikhism accepts itselfs as part of hinduism. Even if it is not accepted verbally, the facts remain.

I understand the pain and agony behind the initiator's post. But comparing the present with the past is futile. And accepting the facts is the only way forward!

Rgds

[Guest]

Well this is an interesting topic. My thoughts as requested by the initiator are as under:

Sikhism started as a very forward looking, simple and strong religion. Over the years it followed the path shown by the Gurus and made numerous sacrifices on the way to maintain the principles. Needless to debate, they were the 'looked - upon' class and seen as saviours for the down trodden and helpless. Not only did the sikhs battle the powerful enemies, but also strongly resisted various temptations like power, wealth, wine, women, etc. Building built on such strong foundation had to grow and flourish - and so they did. Sikhs (under Hari Singh Nalwa / Ranjit Singh) are the only race to have actually ruled afganistan (where world powers of their times like britishers, soviets, and now americans have failed). This is just a significant example of the glory and power the community attained.

Down the years, for numerous reasons, the sikh community has lost its bearing. After a rather small purist movement in early 80s, the changes have been rather quick. The fact as some of the participants have pointed out is primarily on account of weakening of followers of sikhism. A majority of the sikhs saw the turmoil in punjab during the 80s as a good oppurtunity to 'cash-in'. The 'liquidation drive' was strongly led by sikhs themselves for temptation of money and power. (And it is an acknowledged fact that had sikhs not led this drive, bringing punjab back to 'normal' was impossible). I know of so many innocent people suffering atrocities and loosing their lives for only reason that they followed the sikh faith and carried that identity. This was the side-effect of the money generating mechanism called the 'number game'.

Today's sikh is totally weak and confused. All the original ideas like non-caste based religion, not following the devis/devtas, etc, etc are no more significant. Sikhs today are more (or equally) tempted by money / glamour and other worldly things then any other community. There are strong schools that advocate cutting of hair (and a vast majority of sikhs don't support hair anyway). Ofcourse there are occassional incidents that try to highlighted the seperate identity of the sikhs and all but those are more politically motivated.

In real sense today, sikhs are part of hinduism. The merger is more or less complete. Some may deny it but there is nothing to actually prove it wrong. They follow all the practices of hinduism. So what is the harm in accepting it ??? I know some people will like to disagree but as I said, that is only for their own selfish interests and nothing else. I suggest it is high time that sikhism accepts itselfs as part of hinduism. Even if it is not accepted verbally, the facts remain.

I understand the pain and agony behind the initiator's post. But comparing the present with the past is futile. And accepting the facts is the only way forward!

Rgds

Yeah... and it is people like you that preach defeat rather than rising from the bottom. What a rubbish speach.... even the Canadian gora Sikhs know how to inspire fallen Sikhs to go back to the roots.

When Sikh were fighting the moghuls sometimes SIkhs would fall down to only a few men, just imagine if they said oh well lets just become Muslims.

BTW - how is Sikhism a part of Hinduism..... I mean a lot of things from Sikhism could upset Hindus so therefore it is not a part of the same thing otherwise it would not have existed in the first place (Khalsa)

Anyway, in response to your loss of faith why not take a look at this gora Sikhs speach who tries to inspire rather than accept defeat (BTW lots of Singhs in the sangat, so maybe alot of the posts on this forum are just propoganda to try and give the impression that the sky is falling):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ajVXZvl5cM

[tejpalsingh]

supreme ji,
I would like to say from depth of my heart that under this topic your post is most brilliant, realistic and intelligent one, a bitter and harsh truth altogether. Along the same lines I do not anticipate a 'full, final and official merger of sikhism in hinduism'. This is because of the fact that 'money generating system' and 'cash on' tactics on part of some 'custodians of religion' will continue to prevail for obvious reasons.

As far as I think, the main distracting factor in sikhism is identity. Strong majority of sikhs in modern world do not reason with wearing 5 Ks. On the other hand 'custodians of religion' have tactically made it a mean of their own survival to head religious institutions therey control on money. Humiliating tactics used by custodians against cleanshaven sikhs are adding fuel to the fire and distracting more and more people. That is making the people to think that since their ancestors were hindus so what is wrong in being the part of that community.