Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

[UPSingh]

Rani Ji,

Gur Fateh,

The answer to your question is in two parts.
First:
Yes our religion will survive for sure. Any and all efforts to get it to disappear will fail. Sikism is based on truth and truth is eternal and therefore this philosophy will be for ever.
Second:
It is likely that the religion will go through some reforms when it survives. The philosophy will ot change but the outer garb and practices will change. How we do things and custome will evolve with time. There is lot of disagreement on whether those who do not keep Kesh should be included, but I am of the opinion that in the long run philosophy will prevail and the religion will become inclusive and those who keep Sikh Bana and Saroop will work alongside those who are are clean shaven but agree with the basic philosophy of "Ek Pitaa Ekas Ke hum Barik tu mera Gurhai"

This is my humble opinion and I hope some of you agree with the future as I see it. I see a more open and inclusive Sikhism emerging stronger than ever.

Gur Fateh,

UPSingh

[rani_vancouver]

Sat Shri Akaal Everyone,

But I was referring to:

Our next generation does not exist!

when I said:

In this case. you should be asking what purpose you are to your religion.

Implicating that when our next generation does not exist, the Guru's path to God will be lost also.

Oh I see your point Theodorus Ji , however, I did not agree with the original poster on that point. If we look at our history, I don't think Sikh religion was ever safer than it is today. Today we are spread all over the world, and free from the cluthes of any one regume. As far our next generation is concerned, around me they seem to be doing fine. There are Khalsa Schools which cannot meet the demand, so new ones are opening; there are Sikhi camps in the summer times; almost all the Gurudwaras are offering many services to the next generations. Many kids who are born and raised here know more about Sikhism than what I knew at their age. :)

Punjabi is expected to become a recognized national language in Canada by 2011, so that will encourage even more Sikh kids to learn Punjabi to use as a second language, although it is already accepted as such in BC universities. I don't know what this person based his/her prediction upon, I just don't see it.

The best thing we can do is follow the instructions quickly and get out of there. Only kind thing we can do is for others who are trapped, to shout and let them know here are firemen, please get help etc... These firemen are no need of our help specially while we are trapped here.

Perhaps while you are getting out you can point the fireman in the right direction to where others (lying down uncounsiously, intoxicated) are, so they too can be rescued.
And keeping the Guru's example in mind, even risk and loose your life, in the rescue of others.[/quote]

Bhai Theodorus Ji, I think I do spare sometime to write even on this website with the above intention, and also hold such conversations with people in my private life. I am also spending time to learn more by reading Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and I do pray to God to please let me translate Gurbani into English as my Punjabi and English both are reasonably good. But this world is a burning place. We should not burn our ownself with it, but yes, we should do all that we can do to help others, and be thankful to God for giving us the opportunity to do so. Whomever He wills to receive the help will receive it, that is not in our hands. If our own soul is burning in the fire of this world, that means we ourselves are failing in learning Guru Ji's message. Once we learn that message, it will be like we also wearing the fireman's clothes, and cannot burn anymore. Yes then we can rescue as many as we like, without even losing our own soul in the process. :) Even the firemen are not sent into fire without proper gear and training.

BTW, in my post, the human body is not given significant, if we lose the human body, it is not that big of a deal, I am refering to pretecting and nurturing our soul. Also ego is our worst enemy. Never think I, we can do anything, can give our life for others etc. All happens in God's will, as He pleases so it happens.

I hope this clarifies things. If you personally require any help in understanding Gurbani, we can start a separate thread, and I can spare sometime everyday to give you some translations and explainations on any portion of Shri Guru Granth Sahib that you may be having difficulty with.

Regards,

Rani Kaur

[Aryan Punjabi]

No problem can be solved unless and untill root-causes are not identified. Problem being discussed is present and future of a particular community having roots in India.
It is better to look at the past of that community.
Who founded this community ? If answer is ten guru sahibs or any of the guru sahibs then it is wrong.
When did this community exist or survive as independent/separate community ? Answer is never ever.
Is this commuity recognised as separate and distinct community by the strong majority of members of this community ? Answer is no.
Is this community recognised as separate and distinct community by the society ? Answer is no.
Is this community recognised as separate and distinct community by the constitution of the country of origin ? Answer is no.
Is this community united and organised on religious grounds and affairs ? Answer is no.
Then what is the problem ? Is it about external looks/make-over/identity/attire ?
Then which of the article of faith is invented by this community ? Answer is none.
Identity and articles claimed by the community are as old as human race in the world in general and India in particular.
What new is in SGGS which has not beeen said earlier.
Bani in SGGS is not the bani of guru sahibs alone. There is bani of the saints who did not have any affilliation to this community.
What are you worried about ? Are you not worried about your failure to stop imminent changes world is passing through ?
Why one/s should worry about the survival of what did not exist ?

[only4GOD]

Rani Ji,

Gur Fateh,

The answer to your question is in two parts.
First:
Yes our religion will survive for sure. Any and all efforts to get it to disappear will fail. Sikism is based on truth and truth is eternal and therefore this philosophy will be for ever.
Second:
It is likely that the religion will go through some reforms when it survives. The philosophy will ot change but the outer garb and practices will change. How we do things and custome will evolve with time. There is lot of disagreement on whether those who do not keep Kesh should be included, but I am of the opinion that in the long run philosophy will prevail and the religion will become inclusive and those who keep Sikh Bana and Saroop will work alongside those who are are clean shaven but agree with the basic philosophy of "Ek Pitaa Ekas Ke hum Barik tu mera Gurhai"

This is my humble opinion and I hope some of you agree with the future as I see it. I see a more open and inclusive Sikhism emerging stronger than ever.

Gur Fateh,

UPSingh

What you seem to be saying, UP Singh ji, is that Sikhi will be around for a very long time yet, because the vessel given by Gurus holds water.

The same is true of most religions. They have very clear high moral standards. There is little difference when the ritualistic paraphernalia is stripped away, and the abuses of people conducted by people in the name of religion is ignored.

The understanding of what is morally correct and what is not, will definitely survive ( I think this is what you term as "truth") , and whether it is called Sikhism or not is completely immaterial to people who want to act in a proper way that respects all and helps all, even at one's own expense. I think this is what Guru Nanak was also getting at, (eg there is NO Hindu and NO Mussalman ), but his generic message has been hidden over time so that there is now real fear of loss of Sikhism amongst some people like sikh-13. Sikhism is much more than about being recognised as a Sikh, and being noticed as a Sikh should be the last thought in the mind of a person who sees himself as a Sikh at heart.

Sikhs, just as much as Hindus, Moslims and Christians experience problems when they become intolerant of others who have different ideas, and sometimes the differences are very slight, such as how one dresses. Intolerance leads to divisions and disillusionment, and then establishment of new sects and religions, or abandonment of religions altogether.

There are several who post on this forum who come across as intolerant to differences in opinion, and who are ready to put people down, instead of simply recognising them to be different manifestations of the same humanity.

When people get caught up by pride in their religion, or their race, these intolerant attitudes rise up. They then strive to retain their identity, as they try to separate themselves from the others that surround them. They start to see themselves as higher than the next person, instead of seeing them as brothers and sisters, who think slightly differently.

The fears of Sikhs such as Sikh-13 arise because of the pride they have in their mannerisms which they are attached to. They fear loss of their identity as they are swept into living and interacting with people who have different ways, as they cannot confine themselves to a small geographical area, and cannot insulate themselves from incursions into their domains. They fear simple things such as communicating in different languages, and intermarriage with other races, even though this has happened throughout history.
Acceptance of the Lord's ways is the only way to lose their fear.

Fashion changes over time, but if one thinks the currently defined uniform is the only way to keep Sikhi alive, then Sikhi will have to go when youth decides the fashion is out of date, as fashion most definitely changes, especially with global intercommunication, and to think it won't is infantile.

Even though the label tag changes, and will continue to change every so often, there is no reason why moral standards cannot be maintained and even raised, if people can lose their pride of being better than the next person, just because they happen to follow one set of rituals instead of another set.

[only4GOD]

What are you worried about ? Are you not worried about your failure to stop imminent changes world is passing through ?
Why one/s should worry about the survival of what did not exist ?

This is the key to the fears of people like sikh-13. If they learn to accept the world has been changing since it was created then there is no fear of loss of Sikhism, or of anything else. Change renews and refreshes. The Lord creates, destroys and recreates in different guises. People will die, things will disappear, religions will disappear, but new species appear, and new things appear, and can be much better than things of the past, so change can be savoured, as a breath of fresh air wafted by the Lord's flywhisk.

Pavan Guru, pani pita, mata dharat maahat.
Air is the Guru, Water is the Father, and Earth is the Great Mother of all.

divas raat du-ay daa-ee daa-i-aa khaylai sagal jagat.
Day and night are the two nurses, in whose lap all the world is at play.

There is no space in the universe where there will be no change, and the forces of nature bring it about.

[Kuldip S. Virdi]

Aryan Punjabi Jee,

Your post is self contradictory and full of assertions which are not explained. How you arrived at those conclusions, which you seem to have presented as the answers to the questions you have raised?

You begin talking of a community and in the later part of the post claim that it is no community at all.

In your opinion, who but the Gurus founded a separate path (panth) and nurtured till it was officially set out to be Khalsa in 1699 by the tenth master. If you think, it was some one else who founded this 'community', please share your information with the forum.

The majority in India recognise Sikhism as a separate and distinct Indian religion, it is only fringe of RSS types, who want to even include Muslims as Hindus (as they beleive every one living in India is Hindu), who consider that Sikhs are but Hindus.Please see census data of India published since 19th century, where memebers of Sikh community are enumerated separately as Sikhs distinct from Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Parsis etc.

The Indian Constituion recognise Sikhism as a separate religion and allows its memebers to bear Kirpan. Only for the application of the family laws, it clubs Buddhists, Jains and Sikhs with Hindus as the law is based on customs and they happen to be similar for these communities.

The last Guru bestowed the leadership of the community to itself but with the direction of the wisdom embodied in the SGGS. The community has developed its own Rehat Maryada based on the practices followed in the past, study of various earlier Rehat documnets available and takeing the direction of the SGGS, now did they have to invent something new but may be at some stage if the community feels the need for the new they may in thier wisdom do so (example Nanak Shahi Calendar and further modified recently).

In the end, it will be useful, if you expand the answers given to the self questions raised in your post so that your point of view can be better understood and possibly appreciated.

Wahe Guru Ji ka Khalsa, wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh,

Kuldip Singh

[Punjabi G]

Will Sikhism survive? I found an interesting quote which I would like to share. This was written in January of 1877, 133 Years ago.

Ernest Trumpp in his Preface to his Book The Adi Grantha or Holy Scriptures of the Sikhs

Though I can hardly expect that the Granth will attract many readers, the less so, as Sikhism is a waning religion, that will soon belong to history, yet I venture to hope, that my labours will not be in vain. The Sikh Granth, which will always keep its place in the history of religion, lies now open before us, and we know authentically what their Gurus taught.
ERNEST TRUMPP.

Munich, 23rd January, 1877

Today, Guru Granth Sahib is understood and read by more people then any ever did in the past Guruship history of Sikh religion. In fact, all the debates and "conflicts" we seem to have are direct result of this phenomenon. As Sikhs get more and more familiar with the bani in Guru Granth Sahib, it becomes the litmus test against which all beliefs of Sikhism should be tested.

[Punjabi G]

Will Sikhism survive? I am reminded of a quote by Ernest Trumpp which I would like to share. This he wrote in January of 1877 as a Preface to his book The Adi Granth or The Holy Scriptures of the Sikhs, 133 years ago:

Though, I can hardly expect that the Granth will attract many readers, the less so, as Sikhism is a waning religion, that will soon belong to history, yet I venture to hope, that my labours will not be in vain. The Sikh Granth, which will always keep its place in the history of religion, lies now open before us, and we know authentically what their Gurus taught.

Ernets Trumpp
Munich, 23rd January, 1877.

Yet, today, Guru Granth Sahib is read and understood by more people then at any time in Post Guruship history of Sikhism. I would say that most of the debates or discussions we have today are largely due to this understanding. As Sikhs get more and more acquainted with the message of Guru Granth, it will become the litmus test against which any of our beliefs or traditions will be tested!

[Romesh Kumar]

Kuldip Singh Virdi wrote;

"The Indian Constituion recognise Sikhism as a separate religion and allows its memebers to bear Kirpan. Only for the application of the family laws, it clubs Buddhists, Jains and Sikhs with Hindus as the law is based on customs and they happen to be similar for these communities." >>>>> Absolutely correct. Some corrupt and opportunist sikh politicians have misinterpreted article 25 to misguide innocent, gullible and ignorant sikhs to exploit their religious sentiments.

UP Singh wrote;

Yes our religion will survive for sure. Any and all efforts to get it to disappear will fail. Sikism is based on truth and truth is eternal and therefore this philosophy will be for ever." >>>> Divine words.

"It is likely that the religion will go through some reforms when it survives. The philosophy will ot change but the outer garb and practices will change. How we do things and custome will evolve with time. There is lot of disagreement on whether those who do not keep Kesh should be included, but I am of the opinion that in the long run philosophy will prevail and the religion will become inclusive and those who keep Sikh Bana and Saroop will work alongside those who are are clean shaven but agree with the basic philosophy of "Ek Pitaa Ekas Ke hum Barik tu mera Gurhai" >>>>> Ultimate truth. No matter how bitter it sounds to some people.
"This is my humble opinion and I hope some of you agree with the future as I see it. I see a more open and inclusive Sikhism emerging stronger than ever." >>>> Undoubtedly true. People around the globe are knowing more and more about sikhism

Aryan Punjabi wrote;

"Who founded this community ? If answer is ten guru sahibs or any of the guru sahibs then it is wrong." >>>>> Who founded hindu community, a community of nearly one billion people around the world ??? Hindu community survived all the assasins and is existing. Sikh community confronted with all the assasins and survived and will survive and exist like other communities are doing.

Truth alone triumphs.

[drdln]

Our religion will survive but will continue to evolve with changes in culture and religious practices. Science and logic will be dominant factor for changes with every religion and we are no exception, IMO.