Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

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Romesh Kumar
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Post by Romesh Kumar »

"And if sajjan singh was pointing towards Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale than he said himeself that "If asking for your own rights is terrorism than I am terrorist."

There is nothing wrong at all in asking. But asking on gunpoint means something else.
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Post by UPSingh »

Dear Readers,

Sat SIri Akal

It is inteesting to read that for everything that happens in our religion, we find it very easy to blame the government. Whether it is the Givernment in India, in Punjab, in BC , in UK or wherever.

I feel we have to look into ourselves and blame the right person. My feelings are that the Sikh individual is to blame. We have stopped to think for ourselves and instead follow mass propaganda of religious leaders, Sikh youth, Sants, Sikh federation or whatever name we give to the organizations that lead us.

We should think logically, and if the organization is proposing something contrary to Gurbani, we should not support that group. It is really that simple. Sikhs must think as individuals and stop acting as a mob who are led by hysteria rather than Gurbani and logic.


Gur Fateh

UPSingh
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Post by MONA_SIKH »

It is right that the truth is not always what the majority thinks. But it is also a fact that, to survive and to achieve some body sometime has to lead.
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sikh_13
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Post by sikh_13 »

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh !

There are a few question have come up in discussion. Firstly time and again there is a contention that sikhism or sikhs should evolve with time. Well i surely agree with this and we as a community should evolve with time. But to say that the same implies that there is no need to support hair in modern days is escapist. Our Gurus had enough foresight and vision not to order us something that would be irrevent in future. I think those who support this idea are just wanting to have a convinient way out. Even though anyone is free to believe is sikh faith and ideology but sikhs perforce must support hair alongwith other symbols.

Then there was a question about relevance of punjabi language. I suppose langauage is an important pillar for any nation building exercise. Fortunately we inhert one of the finest language and we should make it flourish. Sikh families anywhere must speak and communicate in Punjabi. Though it is may not be forced upon anyone but we must not neglect it the way it is being done today.

Thirdly there was a reference about leadership with a reference to Sant Bhindrawale. Well the fact is that for any nation / race to progress and survive - a strong leadership is required. A good leadership gives direction to the community as also safeguards its interests. History is testimony to the fact that any nation has progressed under strong leadership. We sikhs have failed badly on this aspect and this is one of he main reason for the bad shape that sikh religion is in today. The trend to use gurdwaras for personal gains and benefits has eroded.

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh !
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Post by ImperfectSikh »

sikh_13 wrote:Dear Sadh Sangat Ji !

I write this post (not knowing if it would get past our moderators) to get the inputs over some of the queries I have. I have seen sikhism over last few decades and the way it has evolved. There were days when sikhs were respected and honoured. Then the 'sab toh wada ghalughara followed' - we saw our generation massacred in front of our own eyes. The same sikhs who use to rescue hindu women picked by muslim invaders watched their own sisters mothers and daughters brutally raped. We also saw our so called turbaned leaders guide us from one holocast to then next one. Punjabi subsided - our village folks started speaking hindi and started following religious faiths beyond those permitted by The Gurus. I saw sikh identity go down from being a revered identity to one being despised and made joke of. More over I witnessed (or rather heard) a sikh girl motiviting her lover to cut his hair (so that he would look smart) at Shri Anandpur Sahib (birth place of the Khalsa) - and they were spending a night together in the sra - pretending to be husband and wife.

Dear fellow sikhs - our religion has degraded from being a honoured one to one which is made joke of. Who is to be blamed? No one but ourselves. We thrive on killing our people. When 'Bluestar' happens - sikh 'generals' lead it. When youth is tortured and killed in punjab 'kps sigh gill' leads by 'scoring' high. When sikhs were killed in india in November of 1984 - 'gyani' jail singh continues to be quite. the story goes on...........

Our next generation does not exist!
Our leaders are exploiting on the hard work done by our ancestors and our fore-fathers!
Our girls seek marriage outside our religion!
Our Gurudwara prabhandaks are good businessmen seeking to make the best of the 'facility'!
Our youth lurk after 'tempetations'!
Our moderators are oriented towards their own goals!

I am confused and I seek help from the sangat! I have followed a strong religion - a religion that woud give own / kids / anyone's life for causes close to their heart (be it removing hair or anything). Now i cannot follow this religion sinking into another religion! I need a strong base - I need a base wherein I dont mind dying for my religion.

I seek your opinion on continuing in this faith or giving it up cos of the condition it is in today and the way it is headed!

Waheguru Ji da Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Di Fateh!!!

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I think that this is just a natural moulting process.

Punjabi culture and Sikh religion have never been very good fits for each other. In biological terms, the Punjabi antibodies are basically killing off the "infection" of Sikhi that was planted in the body of Punjab about 500 years ago.

I am Punjabi myself, but have decided to studiously throw out parts of Punjabi culture that contradict Sikhi. I am not perfect, but I am doing my best to not be the sort of hypocrite that seeks Jat/Bhappa/Ramgarhia/etc. matches for one's kids, drinks alcohol, cuts his hair to meet fashion expectations, abuses his family members, and uses filthy invective to appear manly.

This sometimes makes me a poor fit to parts of my own family, but you know what ? I don't care. At least, I have my baani, and that makes everything possible.
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Post by Kuldip S. Virdi »

ImperfectSikh make a very interesting observation but in my humble opinion it needs further reflection.

Jesus of Nazreth did his missionary work in area what is today Isreal and did in a language called Armenic. His ministry lasted only some four years. The religion of Jesus is probably the largest amongst the world and it is preached in all local languages including the pidgin of Africa, Santhali and Gondi of Eastern India. The adherents to the Christian faith come from all geographical locations, culutre and races. The religion has been around for 2000 years.

Mohmed preached Islam some 900 years ago in Arabia in the local Arabic language. The initial followers were the resident of two towns and some tribes only of those two towns and today Islam is spread all over the world and has following probably second to Christianity and is growing inspite of the 'bad press' due the action of some of its followers preaching a certain strain of thoughts.

Except for the Guru Nanak and the last Guru, no other Guru travelled outside the boundary of the old Punjab. The followers of Sikh religion were just handful till the times of the fifth Guru. The major expansion took place when jatts of Malwa embraced sikh religion from the time of Guru Hargobind Saheb. They probably found in this religion, the social system and acceptance of their vigorous independent personal assertion against the political authority suitable for their pastural life style and their own concepts of panchyats and elder's council etc.. The jats continue to be large component say some where around plus 60% of the total sikh population and they control most of the levers of the power in the politics, adminstration and religious affairs of the region which is Sikh dominant presently i.e. Indian Punjab.

The other big influx of people to this religion took place in 1920s when Sikh Gurudwara Reform movement was at its peak. A large number of mazhabi and ravidassia came into the religion at that stage. The Sikh leaders have the cauldrum simmering always with some agitation or other since then for good or not any reason and have kept the sikh psyche agitated and allowed to nurse victimhood for some or other reasons. Of course, the environment has not been too friendly or tolerant or inclusive of their aspiration in many of the times.

Then, we have emigration of a large chunk of people of Sikh origins from the beginning of the twentyth century following their exposures during the first world war. They moved out for economical reasons. Initially, they did not care much about the Sikhi but as they could take care of their basic needs and were not willing or unable to get merged in the local social mileu they revived their basic interest in sikhi and over the years with the vested interest of the raggis and pracharks from India and of course certain genuine care and interest of the people of original Punjabi Sikh background, the sikhism developed in the West and as recognised by many is likely to survive their rather well and progress. I may like to remind that one of the reason could be need to keep own identity and not willing to merge the same with the environment in which they are.

In view of the above introspection, I would not agree that Punjabiat is a misfit for Sikhi. It is the acquired traits of nouve-rich and jhonny come lately that they want to shrug off Sikhism but then ask such people what do they want from the Sikhi. Most of them just do not know. They have not given up on the Sikhi. They just want a cafeteria approach to pick up what suits them in the short term. The way out in my view is more education, awareness and need for spirtual development of people of Punjabi origin to be mcuh closer to sikhi then they are presently. Always, remeber that cradle fo Sikhi was Punjab.

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh,

Kuldip Singh
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Post by MONA_SIKH »

Imperfect sikh ji,
You are right when you explained your part from the biological point of view that Punjabi is an enemy of sikhism. We can see this in every aspect of punjab whether it is the politics, the majority sikhs discriminating against the minority or the low caste sikhs, our own organisations (gurdwara prabhandak comittees) looting us and many other small but crucial points.
So all I could say that the current punjab needs a cultural revolution which infuses a change of mindset in people.
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Post by ImperfectSikh »

MONA_SIKH wrote:Imperfect sikh ji,
You are right when you explained your part from the biological point of view that Punjabi is an enemy of sikhism. We can see this in every aspect of punjab whether it is the politics, the majority sikhs discriminating against the minority or the low caste sikhs, our own organisations (gurdwara prabhandak comittees) looting us and many other small but crucial points.
So all I could say that the current punjab needs a cultural revolution which infuses a change of mindset in people.
I am a Sikh first and foremost and could care less about whether Punjabi culture reforms itself to the level needed to be able to be consistent with Sikhi. Its a curiosity, nothing more.

I have met many many American Sikhs of non-Indian origin who are far better Sikhs than many Gurudwara going members of my own family. I do not think that the future of Sikhism lies in Punjab. The close association between the two is watering down Sikhism to the point where it has become indistinguishable from some inchoate cult.
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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Post by sikh_13 »

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh !

Once again the same questions that I posted at the beginning of this thread have come back to haunt me!

Why are the posts by me not being posted? No rejection messages either.

And then is this thread unmoderated?????

Request please reply !!!

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh !!!

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Re: Sikhism Today! - will we survive??? (UNMODERATED)

Post by sikh_13 »

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh !

Once again the same questions that I posted at the beginning of this thread have come back to haunt me!

Why are the posts by me not being posted? No rejection messages either.

And then is this thread unmoderated?????

Request please reply !!!

Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji Ki Fateh !!!

Moderator Note: Even though this thread is un-moderated, the messages still have to wait to be approved. Moderators are volunteers with daytime jobs. We try to examine the pending messages twice a day. If your message did not appear then it was not posted successfully. Kindly Review a prior *Moderator Note* here
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3391&p=20354#p20354

Moderator note (7/20/2010): Some participants complain that their message was not posted (see above) but after we explain the situation, they have nothing to say. In the future, kindly hold your complaints until you have something to post. Just to set the record straight, there has been no message posted in this thread since the last note above.
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