Inspirational Music Video
Sikh women prefer Sikh men with kesh and dastaar. That is the message
of the latest Punjabi music video by artist, Taranampreet.
Donned in keskis and armed with guitars, Taranampreet and her group, the Spice Girls of Punjab, sing the song ‘Teri Meri Bas’
while perched high on an ornate platform. Below is a courtyard filled
with Sikh women dressed in white. Their warning to Sikh men: "Don’t come
around without unshorn hair and turban."
“These days Sikhs are forgetting what our Gurus did for us,” Taranampreet said in Punjabi, by phone from Jalandhar.
Born in Butala, Taranampreet was a college graduate with two older
sisters and three younger brothers when she got her lucky break about
seven years ago. She auditioned for music mogul, Inderjit Singh Bains.
Both had the same ideas of creating positive music for Sikhi.
With Inderjit Singh as the songwriter and Zakir Husain as the music
arranger, Taranampreet released three albums: Heer Saleti, Sahiban Jati and Nagni. Her music videos are produced in Punjab, but have also aired
on Indian and Punjabi channels in Canada and the United States.
Inderjit Singh has launched many bhangra stars such as Jazzy B of
Surrey, Madan Maddi of India, Bhinda Jatt of California and Sukhshinder
Shinda of England.
“I introduced fresh new artists, made them stars and let them go,” he said by phone from Surrey, Canada.
But after 20 years in the business, he said he had had enough of
artists that only cared about making money. And he had enough of the
bhangra industry, which has gone by way of the rap industry, he said."They send negative messages and promote drinking, drugs and fighting."
“(Our) Gurus have done a lot for us,” he said. “It’s our duty to do
something for the community.” Sikhs, especially the youth, look at
these stars and begin to think that if they don’t wear a dastaar and
they don’t keep their kesh, that is okay, he said. He found his calling
to make inspiring videos in Taranampreet.
Six of Taranampreet’s music videos are on YouTube.
Two of them have inspirational messages and others tackle social ills.‘Naa Dole Khalsa’ impresses upon Sikhs to honor the sacrifices of the
Gurus and martyrs by staying true to Sikhi. ‘Dheeaan’ asks Punjabis to
stop killing unborn baby girls. And ‘Jalandar Lahor’ is a love story
that shows the destructiveness of honor killings.
‘Teri Meri Bas’ has received the most views and the most
comments. In one of the many approving posts, ‘sangajaspreet’
commented in Punjabi, “…looks like boys will have to live alone if they
don’t have beard and kesh.” But in some other posts viewers had
concerns, suggestions and criticism.
‘Pinkpeppypepper’ asked the artist to “please also write Kaur or Singh
with your name.” ‘Meer86singh’ said "the biggest mistake in the video
was that ordinary Sikh girls might think this message is only for those
who have taken Amrit or wear keski." And ‘Junta450’ said, “Sikhi has
been lost to Sikhs, in the struggle for numbers - of dollars and
converts.”
Making music videos has become a struggle for Inderjit Singh. He is
spending his own money and making little in return. The ‘Teri Meri Bas’video cost Rs. 4 lakhs.
Inspirational songs should be distributed free, he said. But he also
needs money to continue his work. It is difficult to make money in this
“dying” industry where music and videos are regularly pirated and
distributed without royalty to its artists or producers.
This only added to his frustration with the industry. So, seven years
ago he gave it up as a full-time occupation and bought a telephone
company with a partner. Music became his hobby. His greatest hope now
is that Sikhs take a greater interest in the message of the music
instead of the flaws of the artist.
“An artist is an artist,” he said. “She is doing something effective.”
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only4GOD : Bhangra is only fun not only sex
If you guys don't like
If you guys don't like following Gurmat then I won't push it on you guys. But i won't refrain from saying what Gurmat is. If you believe Guru Sahib doesn't speak on dancing then that's your opinion and I won't fringe on it. Can you tell me where in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji it does say you may dance?
I wasn't speaking about sex, so don't know how this came into this discussion. Lastly please tell me what you mean by enjoy; what does enjoyment mean to you. To Guru Sahib it is living in God's love and not in heaven and hell. By your post its clear you choose to live in heaven and hell.
Not trying to offend anyone, but please do understand the concept of heaven and hell vs God's love.
5ikh : Question of changing Sikhi
Sat Sri Akal
5ikh ji
You can be dismissive if you wish 5ikh ji, that is your right, but to consider nothing but a note on the supremacy of Waheguru , as a rant, highlights the position further.
Maybe the length of the post made you think it was rant, but you may have misunderstood me, as your words seem to subtly suggest that I may have some ulterior motive.
Let me make it clear to you now, in full honesty, whether you wish to believe me not, that the only motive of making any posts whatsoever is to express my own personal views. There are many who express views akin to yours, and only a few like mine. Either those of similar views to mine stop, and in intimidation give in to those with views like yours, or we continue in defence of the faith we have a total love for. You have chosen to express your views and I have chosen to express mine. That is all there is to it. There is no sinister motive.
My views are of a simple layperson on a spiritual path, guided by Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. I do not consider myself as a Hindu, a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddh, a Jain etc and I am not any agent of anybody.
The only sikh I am of, is that of God. SGGS is my one and only Guru with no other whatsoever. But I am and always will be God's sikh. That is the key point that I sought to express in my last post, to distinguish between those who consider themselves as sikhs of the Guru and stop there, and those who see themselves as sikhs of Waheguru.
Guru Nanak Dev ji also expressed the same idea, when he spoke of being neither Hindu or Mussalman, so if you consider my post as a rant, then maybe if he was here with us today, you would also consider him as one who ranted on.
O course people misunderstood him in his time as well, and there were people then, as there are today, who had paranoid ideas that everyone who speaks a little differently has some sinister motive.
I will make a fuller post on the main forum, which you may or may not see as a rant, or respond to if you wish, as I see many of these in this news section are deleted.
Best Wishes
Himmat
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Of all religions, the best religion is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct.(266-13)
Bani Nirankaar hai
Himmat, your posts are a rant to separate Guru and God. I have asked you many times to show me where the difference is, but you haven't provided anything yet. Many Sikhs including me see no difference from Guru and God. We all come to the same conclusion after meditating on the Shabad Guru. I have provided you with the shabads that clearly show this(in the main forum under the topic: do we believe in the same Guru Nanak Dev ji). Like i said before if you don't accept God and Guru as the same then tell us your intrepretation on the shabads that say Guru and God are one and the same. If I am misinterpreting the shabad then I would like to be corrected. What I have seen many times is that people have a theory already constructed in their mind and when they read Gurbani, they try to look for Gurbani that will back up their theory's. The correct way is reading Gurbani and then trying to figure out what Guru Sahib is saying to us. This way there is no misintrepretation and no nindiya happening of Gurbani.
Also your claim that Guru Nanak Dev ji took the same take as you would be wrong. Here is why. Guru Angad Dev ji was the Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev ji, Guru Amar Das ji was the Sikh of Guru Angad Dev ji, Guru Ram Das ji was the Sikh of Guru Amar Das ji, Guru Guru Arjan Dev ji was the Sikh of Guru Ram Das ji and this keeps going until we come to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Where the Shabad Guru is given a differen form; written. The point is we are Sikh of the current Guru; shabad Guru where many Sikhs see no difference between Guru and God.
Here is kirtan that says what Gurbani is. Nirankaar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXaindOmxxk&feature=related
The True Guru is found in the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation. Day and night, praise the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause|| ang 22
Step by Step, people - And lighten up a bit!
when I am reading all these posts I am feeling that a lot of hypocrisy is going on here. This is an experience I am having in real life as well: As soon as someone becomes an Amrithdhari there's a lot of piety flowing out of their mouths: "This is right and this wrong, this has to be done this way and that has to be done that way." And this all comes around with a lot of judgment.
First of all: God is manifested in all and there's no right or wrong in manifestations of God.
Second: Why is it that everyone is getting so tight after becoming pious (aka took Amrith)? Are we becoming super-human after drinking God's Eternal Nectar? - No, we don't. We are still as fallible as before the difference is that we've had an experience which took us to do this step. And it is our duty to keep it.
But that doesn't mean that we have to become 100% straight-acting people at once, claiming we know everything and don't do any mistakes any more. Our duty is to keep Guru Jee's Kirpa inside of us intact and spread the good deeds and message. But it doesn't mean to become judgmental about other, esp. new ways to inspire the disenchanted youth.
Please ask yourself the question WHY they became disenchanted? - In my humble opinion it is not just to be blamed on Western Americanized Cultural Imperialism (the most effective World War ever, in my opinion), but on the fact that many Amrithdhari Sikhs became so bitter and tight that they lost the ability to "sell" Sikhi the right way. Yes, I am talking about "selling" Sikhi, because that is what it is.
I don't mean that we have to soft-and-sweet-pack Sikhi for the Youth, but we have to speak their language, use their methods and preferences to reach them. I am a Graphic Designer, know some serious stuff about Marketing, and as someone who "converted" (I like the term "inspired by" more) to Sikhism I can tell that reciting Hukams and singing Kirtan alone will not captivate youngsters of today.
And why? - Because a) They are living in a Westerized Society which lives different and b) because their parents and families lost the plot before them and show them that living like this, being a "mona" (I H*A*T*E this term!!) is okay.
So why, I ask all of you fine Amrithdhari out there, is it so wrong in taking some pace out of our efforts, taking in fact some steps back, look AND listen (!!) at what Taranampreet Penjee is doing there and listen to the core message of it.
She is talking about our heritage and to keep it and this is in it's core (left her outlooks aside) quite alright.
The use of the term for the Allmighty (WAHEGURU) is never wrong! So get some sense and don't be so tight.
To reach the youth we have to speak their language, use some of their preferences and take it STEP-BY-STEP without expectations of instant success.
I think some of us like it this way: Using completely outdated methods, being inpatient, full of expectations and becoming judgmental and bitter when it doesn't work. This is - in my experience - only self-serving and judgmental. "It only suits the one who judges but not the one who is judged", as my late Grandfather used to say.
Please brothers and sisters, Rome wasn't built in one day, and much of the construction work was way dodgy ( ;) ); so take some steps back, be happy for every effort taken and watch the results instead of crucifying the one who tries something different.
Every effort is God's Deed and God's Work. When we judge it we judge Him and it is not our place to do so.
Great effort... good luck
Great effort... good luck to sardarni Taranampreet kaur jee. I had stopped listening to punjabi songs since 1980's as punjabi songs were of no taste, i started listening to hindi songs and occasional Gurdas mann songs
i just listened to her song its beautiful and i guess i might start listening to punjabi music . I hope new generations bring out well meaning good songs.
Waheguroo bless her a GREAT SONG
***ਹਮ ਨਹੀ ਚੰਗੇ ਬੁਰਾ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥ I am not good; no one is bad. हम नही चंगे बुरा नही कोइ ॥***
Why is the focus so intently on "Guru" and not on "Waheguru"
Sat Sri Akal
Simple question for those of you who consider it improper to try to inspire people in new ways, (I am not saying it is proper to use degrading language or body language - that I do see as wholly improper) :
Why are so many of your posts so focused on the "Guru" as opposed to "Waheguru" or "God"?
The vast majority of posts I read, from people who are not receptive to what they perceive as a "dilution" or "watering down" or "weakening" of their view of Sikhi, refer to Guru ji. Of course Guru ji had his defined way of life for his sikhs. However Waheguru is supreme for many other people, that you may or may not even consider as sikhs, and Waheguru does NOT have such defined ways.
I did think sikhs saw Waheguru, as the Karta Purakh, the All doer, the All mighty, the ONE who makes things happen as He so wills, and with His grace, and that was the case as I grew up 30-40 years ago, but I am seeing that that concept has changed for a great many who now seem to see themselves as the one and only sikhs, because they follow one or many or all Guru's hukams to the letter without question.
It appears that now makes a sikh and no other person can even be considered as a sikh. Yet, sikh in its generic form means a learner, a pupil, one who is on a path. One is NOT at the end-point of the path, by meeting all the requirements of Guru. The end-point, merger with the ONE GOD, is wholly subject to Waheguru's grace.
Whether the sikh is of good quality or not is NOT for you or anybody else to judge, whether it is a sant who is judging, or the SGPC, or the writers of hukams, or even may I say Gurus.
I mean no disrepect to any Guru ji, without which I would have learned very little, and I am fully confident Waheguru will forgive me for being so forthright. That judge is and always will be WAHEGURU.
He will decide whether the sikh, who is effectively ALL who choose to follow HIS hukam, has done good deeds or bad deeds, and He will pass HIS judgement in HIS own good time.
It is NOT for any human to decide whether a person meets HIS standards.
Just when has it come into your minds that it is for you to judge people on how people worship Waheguru ? What is the matter with you ? You seem to be wholly ignorant of the concept of God as judge, but seem to have taken on His role, setting standards based on your own knowledge, or perceived knowledge, that you have acquired of past Guru ji's and a Rehat Maryada written by humans, which was based on records available and knowledge that had been passed down from generation to generation over a period of over 200 years. That knowledge and records could easily have been flawed through the passge of time, and records could easily have been deliberately doctored.
Even if it was perfect, many of you seem to have totally transformed judge from Waheguru to Guru within a period of 30-40 years, despite everywhere in SGGS the judge is the ONE GOD, who commands all of His creation, including non-sikhs, to to do as one does.
So everybody is a sikh of God, whether one claims to be or not to be, only each is at a different stage of one's spiritual path, and the point one reaches is decided by God, as He makes everything happen as he ordains.
How one chooses to worship God, in a particular way by these people, is how God has willed them to. So How can you possibly say it is wrong ? 5 evils come into play, to change what we actually do, and if we succumb to them, and do something other than God has willed, then He, God, will determine our fates. Not me, not anyone of you, not any sant, not any institution and not even any Guru.
Sikhi is fundamentally about remembering God as we go about our daily tasks, and meeting God's Hukam. Please do take time to reflect on the opening lines of Japji Sahib.
Best Wishes
Himmat ( a sikh of Waheguru, and always will be, whether you or I classify me as a Sikh or not, and whether I dance to waheguru's tune, sing His name, remember Him in a Gurudwara, a Mandir, a Church, a mosque or my back garden, and irrespective of whether I meet Rehat or not )
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Of all religions, the best religion is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct.(266-13)
Himmat, I hope you don't
Himmat, I hope you don't take this as disrespect, but you rant(post) is really on nothing. If you want to practice in your way then do it. More power to you man. No one will stop you. Just in the process don't try to alter Sikhi and hope Sikhi will change to your opinions. Sikhi doesn't change for no one. The Word of God can't be altered or changed.
The True Guru is found in the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation. Day and night, praise the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause|| ang 22
I'm a Sikh , If I'm myself.
After reading all posts and I have got few things to put before all the above .........
Firstly, SGGS is not a to-do or not-to-do book, it is GURU. I will elaborate on this later.
The last line that appears in the video - 'I won't let my Guru down'. How can one do this? .. Whether I'm a Sikh or not will not let Guru down. I'm a Sikh for my-self not for my brother, father, sister or GURU. Guru is there to teach me, to guide me. If I'm not a good disciple it's not letting Guru down but it's my fault. I abuse Guru or I praise Guru, Guru will remain as it is...Guru. I praise Him for my sake, for my self-good. My actions in no way affect Him.
The very crucial point to understand over here is - ' If I don't live the Sikh way but call my self a Sikh'. I suppose this as something 'very wrong'. Then I'm 'degrading' the image of Sikhs. I'm doing wrong to the community as a whole.
Sikh life is very simple life. Commenting on Taranampreet's video - She hasn't represented herself as a Sikh women. Covering your head with a turban is not the only thing that a Sikh women 'has to do' to be a Sikh. I can state with great stress, that appearance matters. Rabbi Shergil has not sung any 'religious song in his albums' (otherwise he has) but he has very successfully inspired many so-called-sikhs (but are not) to keep beards and uncut hair.
If you are a Sikh - it simply means you are 'Yourself'. You neither tend nor pretend to be something which you are not but you feel proud to be yourself and you love to represent yourself as yourself. Taranampreet, Miss Pooja, Satinder Bitti and other male and female punjabi singers are no-where near the sentence.
@ Theodorus . @ "So it is not "keeping hair for the wrong reasons", it is more "not having to cut hair for the wrong reasons"." Sikhism or Sikhi is not an accessory to be sold or bought by someone and so there's no sense in spreading Sikhism by 'any-means'. Tell me is there any so called right reason to cut hair. NO. I once heard in SSS Harbhajan Sinhgh Ji 's lecture - A boy with a bun/jura on his head goes to school, his classmate asks him 'What is that bun or ball on your head'. The boy replies, 'Why don't you have a bun/ ball on your head ? God gave it to me. " The classmate again questions, ' Then why didn't God gave it to me'. He replies, "He did, but your father stole it, and every fortnight he gives money to the barber for this." ...What you think the guy in the video will answer ? .. may be 'My girlfriend said she won't be my gf any more if I cut my hair or the bun or beard..? Is this what you call - Love for the Guru - Love for yourself.
The point, do the right thing with the right intention and for right reason.
Punjabi culture and Sikhi are two 'SEPARATE THINGS'. Many people both in India (infact in Punjab too) and outside are continuously and endlessly debating over this. In Sikhi we enjoy light moments, we enjoy happiest of the occasions by listening Kirtan. When you enjoy doing bhangra , you are enjoying in punjabi culture. How does Sikh people of non-Indian origin enjoy. They dance as per their culture and enjoy it.
Lastly, Sikhs don't need numbers. We are not competing any body. Sikhism is not a religion to be preached by distributing free literature, or by forcing people ( like they do in Islam).
Sikhism is to be 'selected' and chosen by those who 'want to proliferate themselves to be one with the One. Numbers is no question. One Sikh is enough in a city but Sikh needs to be 'Sikh'.
Sikhism is not only a religion but a way of living life. This rules out the remembering guru only at Gurudwara Sahib or while doing path but Sikhism is to be lived in every breath.
I would like to quote Gur Ka Sikh over here, "Sikhi does not live in just one layer of the Bana alone!! There is a Sikh culture which has been there for centuries. This does not come close to it. Next to Keski, Bana, Sikhi lie discipline, decency, simple outlook and disposition".
This IS NOT THE RIGHT WAY!!
Sikhi Marg
5ikh ji: All Methods of Inspiration are valid
Thank you 5ikh ji for pointing out which Guru first used the term “sikh”. I honestly had missed registering which Guru mentioned it first, even though I do listen to Japji Sahib almost daily, I don’t think along lines of which mehala precedes.
5ikh ji, I did correspond with you recently on the Guru Nanak thread , on the main forum, and maybe that is unfinished there. If you still want me to I will write to you on those shabads, but please do tell me just why you want me to, as you have already provided English translations? I cannot possibly translate them any better than the translator has already done – just what do you expect from me ?
Anyway, as you have joined in this, can I ask you (or anyone else interested) please , do you also think that only Sikhs can inspire Sikhs ?
If so, who inspired Guru Nanak Dev ji ? If he was the first sikh, was it God ?
If it was God, then is God now incapable of inspiring any person who is not currently viewed as a sikh ?
What does “sikh”, its generic form, mean to you ? Does it not mean “learner” or “pupil” ? If it does, then who is the teacher ? Is it another learner ?
It can be another learner, but what if the learner is a beginner, and has limited knowledge ?
Does not one then turn to the teacher ? Is the supreme teacher of teacher, the master of masters, not God ? People who read Kirtan Sohila know and are aware of this.
“But the Teacher of teachers is the One, who appears in so many forms. ||1||”
Now of ways to inspire using forms of music.
What if God has changed His teaching methods over the 500 years since He taught Guru Nanak ji ? Is He not allowed to change ? He stays the same, but can He not teach in the language of His attentive subjects, using the teaching methods that are most likely to appeal, motivate and inspire?
Should we only have hand-written birs of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji,or even more, should we say only the very first scribed for Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji can inspire, as all others are copies and so they should not be permitted to be placed in a Gurudwara?
Guru Arjun Dev ji’s Adi Granth clearly inspired Guru Gobind Singh ji, so why did he tamper with it by adding to it, and so change the teaching instrument there ?
(Guru ji: please forgive me for using the term instrument)
Do you not think that just maybe, he wanted to update it to include some of his father’s compositions ? Was this wrong ?
Should we say because Guru Nanak ji was a man he cannot inspire a woman, because only women can inspire women ?
As to Bhangra and whether it is Punjabi or Sikh, I think you need no evidence at all. Just reflect on all the ikh weddings of people with Punjabi roots, that you may have attended. Most Sikhs are still Punjabi, and most Sikhs are most happy with continuation of Bhangra.
You are of course querying whether it is Sikhi to perform Bhangra. Here the ladies are not, but even if they had done, just why would this have been out of order ? Just because Bhangra, dance or non-kirtan methods are not mentioned as a way of worshipping God, it is quite clear that all methods of worship are totally valid.
Again for example in Kirtan Sohila, it is stated that even though there are six schools of philosophy, six teachers and six sets of teaching, one should follow the system in which the praises of the creator are sung. Sukhmani Sahib expands on this.
To me that is very, very clear. Absolutely any way at all can be used to sing the praises of God. To say one is better than the other, or even further to say that only certain methods are acceptable is absolutely ludicrous. All methods will change as new methods are developed and old ones are forgotten or archived. Change is absolutely inevitable. God creates, destroys and recreates. Ultimately as long as a method is used, then it will never be rejected by God.
The same applies to the form of language, places of worship, styles of diwans, sarovers, adornments, cutting or not cutting hair etc as much as it does to musical methods. The point is to remember God as we continue with our daily lives, whatever we are doing, and the method used is wholly immaterial, so just who, other than God, can judge what is right or wrong?
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Of all religions, the best religion is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct.(266-13)
Himmat take a read of Guru
Himmat take a read of Guru Ka Sikhs post and Arshi they have done a beautiful job of eloborating what i was saying. If you still have some questions that need to be asnwered i will answer them on your request. Otherwise, it would be a waste of time answering (time is really valuable to be now, no disrespect intended) a post that goes on many assumptions and then comes to a faulty conclusion on premise that don't even support the faulty conclosion.
The True Guru is found in the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation. Day and night, praise the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause|| ang 22
Maya Maya and some more Maya
here, we go again. Another group saying we are doing right to attract the younger generation. And what better way then use the female as the attraction (eye candy). The female here is telling the man if you cut your hair we are no more.
One quick question to the moderate and liberal supportors of this kind of foolish behaviour. Is this how the Guru got us to keep uncut hair, to use a female or man as eye candy?
It's because of Guru Sahib word we keep hair. Not for no female or male if your a women. This song/music video is sending out the wrong message as a whole.
This video shows the love for worldy attachments and not the love for the Guru.
They are sending out the correct message(keep hair uncut), but in the wrong way by using wrong reasons.
The True Guru is found in the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation. Day and night, praise the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause|| ang 22
Mis-use Maya
Why not mis use Maya to attract attention? If the result is one Sikh on the right path then it might be worth it.
To my opinion and from what I read on this site the main reason for the younger generation for cutting their hair is to attract female attention. They seem to think females do not like men with beard and long hair (where would they get that idea?). So to 'use' a female to say otherwise is very clever advertising.
This way young men do not feel they have to choose between love for the Guru and love from women. So it is not "keeping hair for the wrong reasons", it is more "not having to cut hair for the wrong reasons".
Theodorus read Guru Ka
Theodorus read Guru Ka Sikh's post and Arshi post aswell. If you want me to eloborate even more then I will. The two have done a beautiful job.
The True Guru is found in the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation. Day and night, praise the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause|| ang 22
Don't confuse culture with religion
5ikh ji,
I presume you refer to Guru Ka Sikh's original post (at the bottom). I re-read it and to my opinion in that comment punjabi Sikh culture is confused with Sikh religion. (Guru Ka Sikh even mentions Sikh Culture). Culture is something entirely different then Religion. To my opinion Sikhism as a world religion should not need to rely that heavily on Punjabi Culture. I do realise that the two (culture and religion) for the moment cannot be entirely separated. But again do not confuse culture with religion.
I did already reply to Arshi's post.
Heaven and Hell is only worldy
Theodorus ji, as you go deeper into Sikhi it will come clear that Sikhi culture comes from Sikhi, not as a religion, but as a way of life. Everything a Sikh does revolves around Guru ji's word. The culture that we live in is Sikhi. Making an honest living, selfless service, and meditating on God's name is Sikhi culture. To this we can add all the rest of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji's teaching to make up what people like to separately define as culture. Wearing of the Dastaar, keeping long hair, practicing martial arts in self-defense, the list goes on. When someone trys to define bhangra as apart of Sikhi culture then they are also saying it is apart of Sikhi as a whole. When we go through Guru ji teaching he does speak on dancing, but it is subtle. We are told to control the mind and not let it bounce around (stay focused on the Lord and dance in his love). Bhangra makes the mind bounce and takes you away from the Lord's love. Another thing is when one is attached to the Lord the mind is adorned with his love and the body has no need to dance. We can see this by listening to Gurbani. Gurbani puts us in a relaxed state where the body doesn't feel to get up and physically start dancing. What controls the body-the bouncing mind. To go further we can describe bhangra (dancing) as pleasure. Meditating over the Shabad Guru Sikhs don't live in pleasure or pain we live in God's love. We take life as we are given whether we humans think its pleasure or pain. To live in pleasure(dancing when we are happy) and pain we are only living a wordly life that will only have worldy benefits. We must go beyond pleasure and pain. Take pleasure and pain as one and the same and a person realizes God's love.
The post of Guru Ka Sikh that i was refering to was one of his latest post it's a long one called 'Sikhi Marg'
The True Guru is found in the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation. Day and night, praise the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause|| ang 22
5ikh ji,
I thought there was talk about Punjabi culture?
I think when you try to learn Bangra you will find out that it takes a lot of control (not unlike martial art) and you realy want to tell me that Sikhs that are good in Martial art or in Kirtan do not enjoy what they are doing?
Do you realy mean to say that I'm not allowed to dance as an expression of my love for God?
In order to go beyond pleasure and pain you should first have experienced pleasure and pain.
I always thought Sikhism was a happy religion (ok, that might not be the right word). I for one like to laught once in a while.
Theodorus ji, you have lost
Theodorus ji, you have lost the whole plot here. From your post it visible you don't understand what I have said about heaven and hell and living in God's Love.
Also you comparing Kirtan to bhangra tells the reader how much knowledge you have about what kirtan is.
You as a peson can do whatever you like, but I have told you what a Sikh will do when listening to the Lord's word. Gurbani does not make you dance. Read my last post to understand why.
When bhangra is performed what do you have control of? Also Martial art is learned so a person can defend themselves. What is bhangra and grinding up a women at a club learned for?
Jumping up and down to degrading music is not called control.
Here is a hint to why no need to dance, Repeat the Lord's name consciously 24/7.
The True Guru is found in the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation. Day and night, praise the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause|| ang 22
You might be right
5ikh ji,
You might be right about me not understanding it all and also about my knowledgde about what kirtan is but I wasn't compairing Kirtan to Bhangra.
I just used these two examples (Kirtan and Martial art as activities in which people might find joy doing them. What I read from your post is that people are not suppose to have joy in anything.
I agree that jumping up and down to degrading music is not called control but I think you shouldn't underestimate good bhangra dancing as I'm sure there is a lot of control involved in that.
I agree that every 'art' form can be made vulgar (grinding up a woman at a club) but that doesn't mean the art itself is vulgar. I mean dancing can be gracefull and beautifull too.
Maybe I'm experessing myself poorly but my points are:
1. Sikhs can (are allowed to) have fun
2. Dancing is an art and not vulgar in itself.
before we go any further
before we go any further since your whole post is based on these words, tell me what joy and fun mean to you. As I read your post, I can tell you are stuck in heaven and hell way of life.
Also to your art comment. Here is another art, you might not consider it an art but some people in this world do. The master piece of being an hitman and not getting caught. To the hitman this is there art and they paint their master pieces with sometimes taking their own lives. Here is another example: Economic hitmens art is destroying other countries economy for future gain. Both of these are arts and not vulgar. Theordorus it's best to stick with gurmat when discussing about Sikhi. If it's not Gurmat then its not Sikhi and not good for the soul.
Am I missing something?
girls have..........
Richheritage ji , people have many sources of inspiration
To say a Sikh can only be inspired by a Sikh, would leave Sikhs with a very real problem, because there must always be a first Sikh. Using the thinking that only Sikhs can inspire, then they would never have any source of inspiration whatsoever, other than God, as no-one would have inspired the first to become a Sikh.
Sat Sri Akal
I don’t know full history of Sikhs, but it would be interesting to know which particular Guru first used the term Sikh. If it was say the 6th or 10th then where does this leave Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as a source of inspiration, with only Gurus 1-5, and 9 contributing, plus the various Bhagats ?
Surely God is the only true source of all inspiration, and He is all pervading, in Sikhs and non-sikhs alike?
As to the article, absolutely everything changes, save for God, whether people want to accept the fact or not. If people want to deny change they will only stagnate and eventually pass into history as people of academic interest, to people of the future.
It is total nonsense to deny that Sikh people like dance and music. They love it, and it is an inherent part of their punjabi culture . Kirtan has its place, but so does Bhangra, and Bolias / Ghazals. Good luck to all types, but do try to remember God as you pray, sing, dance , talk, play and work.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Of all religions, the best religion is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct.(266-13)
Guru Nanak Dev ji (the first
Guru Nanak Dev ji (the first Guru)was the first Guru to use the word Sikh. People that read Japji Sahib know and are aware of this.
Punjabis like to dance and listen to degrading music, not Sikhs. Also Punjabi culture is not Sikhi culture. Bhangra has no place in Sikhi and the once saying it does, please present the evidence. The evidence doesn't exist because the statement is false.
The True Guru is found in the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation. Day and night, praise the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause|| ang 22
Bhagat Kabir Ji
Being negative is too easy..
richheritage@kh... ji,
Have you realy thought through on what you said?
"How can a non sikh inspire sikhs."
Have you ever looked at the people that contributed to the SGGS?
(Kabir was a Muslim weaver, Baba Farid was a Muslim saint, Bhikhan was a Sufi saint. - I'm not well enough educated to sum up more).
Are you only inspired by those parts that are written by Sikhs?
Besides that you are talking about a Song which ment to be heard not seen. The video is only there to attract attention as yought these days is more visual inclined.
So all in all I think that if through this musical video there is only one young man that keeps his hair the effort has been worth it.
Manraj_Singh123 ji,
"bhangra is not supported in our religion"
Huh? what do you mean by that?
It is the same as saying "driving a car is not supported by our religion" or "using a cell phone is not supported by our religion" or "using a computer is not supported by our religion" (you are using one aren't you?).
Guru ka Sikh ji,
You wrote:
"It seems like quite contrary to Sikh way of life to have music and styles like the one that is seen here."
Aren't you mistaking culture for religion?
Sorry, I do not want to offend anybody and I do understand your way of thought (rationally that is). I can (to some degree) even respect it but I think you should not impose it on others that do something positive for Sikhism.
Theodorus, can you tell us
Theodorus, can you tell us where in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji bhangra(dancing) is supported. Surely you see nothing wrong with it. You see it as cell phones and computers.
The way you speak to Manraj, is completely wrong. He said something very virtues about Sikhi and you based on your mind degrade what he has said to stupidity. By your post it's obvious to say you are satisfied by your response on putting another down based on your manmat.
Also do explain the positive for Sikhism this video will do. I would love to hear this.
The True Guru is found in the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation. Day and night, praise the Word of His Shabad. ||1||Pause|| ang 22
Let me tell you......
5ikh ji,
you wrote:
"Theodorus, can you tell us where in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji bhangra(dancing) is supported. Surely you see nothing wrong with it. You see it as cell phones and computers."
That is right, I indeed see nothing wrong with it. It is something that has nothing to do with religion just as cell phones and computers. Off course I cannot tell you where in SGGS bhangra is supported as I have to admit I haven't read SGGS cover to cover yet. But perhaps you can tell me where in SGGS something is explicitly said against bhangra.
You wrote:
"Punjabis like to dance and listen to degrading music, not Sikhs. Also Punjabi culture is not Sikhi culture. Bhangra has no place in Sikhi and the once saying it does, please present the evidence. The evidence doesn't exist because the statement is false."
I need to disagree with you. "degrading" is you subjective perception. Of course you are entitled to this opinion but remember it is just an opinion. I have not yet found a sharp distintion between Sikhi culture and Punjabi culture. I still hope to find one between Sikhi Culture and Sikh Religion. Bangra has no place in Sikh Religion but in Sikh Culture? I'm not so sure about that. There is no evidence that Bhangra has a place in Sikhi as there is also no evidence Bhangra has no place in Sikhi. So neither statement is true or false.
you wrote:
"The way you speak to Manraj, is completely wrong."
You are right. I might not agree with what he writes but I should not have use such a degrading tone in what I wrote. I would like to sincerely apologise to Manray_Singh123 ji, I know I can be to direct but this was unnecessarily sarcastic and it surely crossed the line.
Nindya ji,
You wrote:
"and speaks very harsh words to those people who cut their hair"
I have to admit I do not understand Punjabi so I do not understand the text. So you might be right in that the words might be harsh (to your perception). But please remember that whenever there is a message in a song the words need to be direct an to the point to get the message through as a song is often very short and the message in the text is only on of the many aspects of a song.
5ikh ji; Theodorus sahib: INTENTION IS IMPORTANT
Goal, Intention, Means
arshi ji,
You write:
"at times your posts do irritate me. Directness is good sometimes but not always."
And probably rightly so as I'm not only very direct but often also jumping to conclusions much too fast.
Your title is:
"Intention is important"
So be assured that my intention never is to put people down or offend them. I might not be social smart so sometimes I (unknowingly) do offend people. Please do not hesitate to make me understand my mistakes (that sometimes might take some effort ;-)
You wrote:
"On the internet we often do not know the age, the mind and the background of the person we are addressing."
You are right. Remember me asking for people to upload their picture to their profile to get at least some idea of that? Sadly only one person did. I understand the reasons why though.
P.S. I do not read anything in it as I wouldn't know the front from the back but why is 5ikh a 'ji' and am I a 'Sahib'?
Theodorus ji : Thanks
Nindya
Sooo right!
Now singers crossing limits.......
This is an insult
Finally!
Mockery of the Sikh value system
Gurukasikh ....well you are right...
Guru Ka Sikh Ji, I do agree