Impact of WWI on Sikh soldiers based on their letters

April 15th, 2009 by Bhupinder Singh Holland

 

These letters of Sikh soldiers project their courage, loyalty, will to win the war or die like Sikh heroes. They have followed the great Sikh tradition of martyrdom laid down by their Guru Gobind Singh to protect and save the mankind from any type of oppression. Letters also narrates the condition in which they had to fight. The Great War was terrible and Sikhs have contributed by giving their lives in thousands. Most of the letter were detained and never reached destination.

In Europe, the Sikhs have fought in Belgium-Flanders at Ypres twice from 22 October 1914 till 31 October 1914 and from 22 April 1915 till 1st of May 1915 and in France at La Bassee, Neuve Chapelle from 10 to 13 marches 1915, Auber’s Ridge, Festubert, Loos 25 September 1915, Givenchy and Somme from July 1916 to November 1916.

To understand these letters from Sikh point of view, some history background is very essential.



By the end of the eighteenth century the Sikhs had conquered most of the present Pakistan, Kashmir as well as the Punjab and most of the territories of the present Himanchal and Haryana provinces of India. Maharaja of Punjab Ranjit Singh (1780-1839) blocked the outside invaders forever by pushing them the other side of the Khyber Pass. In the east, River Sutlej was the boundary with the British.

Maharaja Duleep Singh GCSI (1838-1893), son of Maharaja Ranjit Singh was the last Maharaja of the sovereign state of Punjab and the Sikh Empire. After the end of the Second Anglo – Sikh War and subsequent annexation of the Punjab in 1849, he was deposed at the age of eleven by the East India Company and was sent into exile (1854) in England. He had 8 children.

*Sikh soldier’s love and regards for the family of Maharaja Ranjit Singh is well shown in the letter of Kartar Singh (Sikh, 15th Sikhs) to Gurdit Singh (Raswind, Punjab) from Milford –on –Sea on 24th February 1916 via letter no (253) (Gurmukhi)

“And my friend, this is the photo of our King’s granddaughter – he who was King of the Sikhs, Ranjit Singh. She has distributed her photo amongst Sikh brethren at the depot (Milford) on the evening of the 23rd February at five o’ clock.” (Written on the back of a photo of a lady friend, signed Sophia A. Duleep Singh 1916)

*The spirit (Chardikala), religious sentiments and facts of that situation are well described in the letter of Mohan Singh (Sikh) to Sirdarni Bishan Devi (Lyallpur District, Punjab. The letter (254) is written in Urdu on 25th February 1916 from 6th Cavalry, France.

“You say that you have heard that the entire Indian Army has left France. This is not so. The infantry have left but the cavalry is still upholding the honour of the Government here. By the Grace of God the cavalry are flourishing like fields of Sarson (rape seed) in the spring. At the present time much rain and snow are falling and consequently the cold is very severe. The snow accumulates all day….. Sirdar Buta Singh of Rawalpindi has sent a copy of the Granth Sahib. He has conferred a great favour on us, since we can have worship celebrated during our sojourn in a foreign land.”

*France is cold, full of milk and land of golden age, Bakhshis Singh (Sikh) of Sialkot Cavalry Brigade writes (in Gurmukhi) from France on 27th February 1916 to Sher Singh (Ferozepur District, Punjab. (255)

“Here is very cold at present. It snows much. The little discomfort that we experience is due to cold and rain. Otherwise the country is like heaven. It rains frequently. You are, no doubt, astonished at what I say and wonder how this country can be heaven. Listen to one little thing. Here no one drinks water. When they desire to drink, either at meals or any other time, they drink the juice of apples. So many apples are produced that the people press the juice and store it in barrels, (from) which they drink throughout the year. They let us have a bottle full for two pica (paisa). All the men drink it. There is no prohibition – you may bring as much as you like inside the house. Barrels upon barrels are full of it. Moreover there are barns full of apples. If I return alive I will tell you all about this country. You shall be staggered at all I shall tell you. It is real heaven. There is plenty of milk, but only cow’s milk. The people, however, drink very little milk. They milk the cows and then they extract the butter at the rate of a mound (40 kilo) of milk in ten minutes. The skimmed milk they give to cows, calves and pigs. The people are very honest. There is no sign of theft. Goods to the value of lakhs (hundred thousands) of rupees lie in glass houses. No one pays any regard to them. Grain, potatoes and such like things lie in the fields unguarded. In short, the cat plays with pigeons and chicken and the dog plays with the cat and tends the sheep, churns the butter and draws a cart and guards it too. When a cow calves, they immediately take away the calf and do not let the cow see it. They rear it on skimmed milk. The milk the cow daily – two or three times daily – without the calf being present. The cows in fact do not know whether they gave birth to a calf or not. It is the golden age.”
 
*Sowar Natha Singh (SIKH) to Sapuran Singh (Lyallpur District, Punjab wrote in Urdu (209) from FPO 19, France on 4th January 1916.

“The country is exceedingly pleasant. In it India is forgotten. I do not wish the war to end soon. I should like to die in this country and I have no intention of returning to India. If you want anything, write to me. May the Holy Guru save me from India? I hope you will answer this quickly, telling me you are well. I am in great comfort as I am always away from the squadron. Tell Basant Kaur from me to look carefully after the children and have them well schooled, fed and clothed. There is no need to think of the cost. She can spend as much as she likes on them. But I have no hope of seeing them again – nor do I wish to see them. For I have found a good opportunity of sacrificing my life and I hope to pay my debt with loyalty.

*Isher Singh (Sikh, 59th Rifles) to a friend (50th Punjabi, Punjab) wrote in Gurmukhi on 1st May 1915 from Indian General Hospital, Brighton describing the war of New Chappell. (63)

“The battle is being carried on very bitterly. In the Lahore Division only 300 men are left. Some are dead, some wounded. The division is finished. Think of it – in taking 50 yards of German trench, 50,000 men are killed. When we attack they direct a terrific fire on us – thousands of men die daily. It looks as if not a single man can remain alive on either side – then (when none is left) there will be peace.

When the German attack they are killed in the same way. For us men it is a bad state of affairs here. Only those return from the battlefield that is slightly wounded. No one else is carried off. Even Sahib (English officers) is not lifted away. The battleground resounds with cries……. Here thing are in a very bad way. In France the news is that dog churn milk in machines and look after the cattle. A man who keeps a dog has to pay five rupees a month to the King.

Do not be anxious about me. We are very well looked after. White soldiers are always besides our bed – day and night. We get very good food four times a day. We also get milk. Our hospital is in the place where the king used to have his throne (Brighton Pavilion). Every man is washed once in hot water. The King has given strict order that no trouble be given to any black man in hospital. Men in hospital are tended like flowers and the King and Queen sometimes comes to visit them.’’  

The words of Bakhshis Singh and others about France are even true today (2008)  as about 8000 Sikhs are living in France, enjoying good life, prosperity and have established three Gurdwara’s there. Their generation will not go back to India to live.

But not everything is all right with the Sikhs now. As you must be aware, in March 2004 a law was passed in France that bans conspicuous religious symbols and attire in the classroom. Under this law, Sikh schoolchildren are banned from wearing the Sikh turban. The same people who fought for the freedom of mankind and the world including France have been denied their right of freedom. They all died or were wounded for the freedom of Britain and the world, and during shell fire, with no other protection but the turban, the symbol of their faith. A Sikh's right to wear his articles of faith has been challenged in schools, the workplace, Prisons and other public places. Sikhs suffer increased harassment at airports because they wear the Turban. Sikhs can’t have their photos with Turban on the Driving licence, Identity Card including French Passport. Is it not a shame on part of the French Government? Our forefathers did not give their lives that their children should suffer. This is a great injustice and Sikhs throughout the World, especially in France are fighting a legal battle.

Guru Gobind Singh (1666 - 1708) the 10th master of the Sikhs revealed Khalsa in 1699. Khalsa was to be a “politically and spiritually sovereign” entity, in direct line of Waheguru, the Supreme Sovereign. Khalsa is the direct subject of Akal Purakh (God). Hence the sovereignty of Khalsa is both temporal and transcendental. Guru Gobind Singh prescribed Khanday di Pahul (proper initiation ceremony) for those who wished to join Khalsa (the sovereign subjects of God) brotherhood. Thousands of Sikhs gave their lives under this spirit of the Khalsa during the times of the Guru Gobind Singh and later on it was this spirit that Khalsa fought the great Moguls in 17th and 18th century and established Khalsa Rule (Raj) under the leadership of Maharaja Ranjit Singh of Punjab.

The British had fought 8 wars against the Sikhs and they knew very well the martial spirit, war tactics and supremacy of the Khalsa army in all the battlefields. Though the Khalsa Army was banned after the close of the Second Anglo – Sikh War and the subsequent  annexation of the Punjab in 1849 by unfair means (read History of the Sikhs by Dr. Harjinder Singh Dilgeer) but Sikh Army was reorganised again in 1858 and took part in all the major wars of the British including 1st and 2nd World Wars.

*The spirit of the Khalsa can be felt from a poem (295) written in (Gurmukhi) by Dafadar Nathan Singh (Sikh) to Sowar Paran? Singh of State Cavalry, Jind State, Punjab on 18th April 1916 from 2nd Lancers, France.

The Sikh roars like a lion on the field of battle,
And yields up his life as a sacrifice:
Whoever is fortunate enough to be born a Rajput
Never fears the foe in battle:
He gives up all thought of worldly pleasure,
And dreams only of the battle field:
He who dies on the field of battle,
His name never dies, but lives in history:
He who fronts the foe boldly in battle,
Has God for his protection:
Once a Sikh takes the sword in Hand,
He has only one aim: victory!


*A sepoy of the 47th Sikhs (Sikh) wrote (199) to a friend in Punjab from Brighton Hospital in Punjabi language on 14th December 1915.

“Chur Singh has suffered martyrdom in the war. The 47th Sikhs were charging.  The Sahib (English officer) said,” Chur Singh, you are not a Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh, (you) who sit in fear inside the trench. Chur Singh was very angry. Chur Singh gave (the) order to his company to charge. He drew his sword and went forward. A bullet came from the enemy and hit him in the mouth. So did our brother Chur Singh become a martyr? No other man was like Jamadar Chur Singh.

*Loyalty of the Sikh soldier’s towards the King – Emperor of India is clearly visible from a wounded Sikh’s letter of 15th January 1915 from a hospital in England written to his brother ( Amritsar District, Punjab ) The letter (7) is written in Gurmukhi.

“Brother, I fell ill with pneumonia and have come away from the war. In this country it rains a great deal: always day and night it rains. So pneumonia is very rife. Now I am quite well and there is no occasion for any kind of anxiety…… If any of us is wounded or is otherwise ill, Government or someone else always treats him very kindly.  Our Government takes great care of us and we too will be loyal and fight. You must give the Government all the help it requires. Now look, you my brother, our father the King – Emperor of India needs us and any of us who refuses to help him in his need should be counted among the most polluted sinners. It is our first duty to show is loyal gratitude to Government.”

*Sepoy Gurdit Singh (Sikh) to his father (Amritsar District, Punjab) wrote in Gurmukhi from Brighton Hospital on 6th April 1915. (48)

“Here it is said that men are being forced to enlist by order in India and they also say that plague is very rife. Write me some news of our country…… so long as the war goes on, no sound man can return to India – only those who have lost a limb can return. In my heart I feel that I shall have to go back to the war.”

*Gyan Singh (Sikh) wrote (52) to his brother in Punjab in Gurmukhi on 15th April from Indian Army Depot Milford – on – Sea.

“The German is very strong. His planes sail the clouds and drop shells from the sky: his mines dig up the earth and his hidden craft strike below the sea. Bombs and blinding acid are thrown from his trenches which are only 100 to 50 yards from ours. He has countless machine guns which kill the whole firing line when in attack. When he attacks we kill his men. The dead lie in heaps. England is full of wounded. No man can return to the Punjab whole. Only the broken – limbed can go back. The regiments that came first are finished – here and there a man remains. Reinforcements have twice and three times brought them up to strength but straightaways they were used up. The German is very strong.”  

*Sepoy Baghel Singh (Sikh) wrote (47) to his brother (2nd Lancers, France) in Gurmukhi on 6th April 1915 from New Milton Hospital.

“I am not one of those who are to return to India. Only those go to India who have but one arm or one leg. This is the fact. German has made us a fine lot of specimens. It makes one cry and even laughs to see them.”

*Bir Singh (Sikh, 55th Rifles) to Ganga Singh (55 Rifles, Kohat, NWFP) wrote (98) from a Hospital in England in Gurmukhi on 17th July 1915.

“They take great care of us here as no one else would take except a man’s mother, not even his wife. If a man falls sick at home and remain ill for a month the whole household grows weary of his illness, but these people do not grow weary. The arrangements for our food are very good because men have been selected from the regiments to look after it and every man is served by his caste – fellows. First we suffered that the trenches were ill made but now they are very strong and there are no losses in the trenches and no hardship. Much rain falls and if you dig down a little way in the ground you come upon water. It is very cold but we have plenty of clothing and get good rations. Our regiment has got the better of all the other regiments. They agreed to eat biscuits and European bread but our regiment refused. So now we get atta and the other regiments get biscuits – and bad (ones) atl that. People told us that there was no atta in this country and we should have to eat biscuits; but, where there are inhabitants, there atta must be obtainable. Besides, there are plenty of mills.”

*A Sikh wrote (163) in Gurmukhi from FPO. 13, France to Mahant Partab Das (Patiala State, Punjab) on 18th October 1915.

“What you say in your letter about not being disloyal to the Emperor and it being the religion of Sikhs to die facing the foe – all that you say is true. But if only you yourself could be here and see for yourself! Any shrivelled Chars – Sodden fellow can fire the gun and kill a score of us at our food in the kitchen. Ships sail the sky like kites. Wherever you look, machine guns and canon begin to shoot and bombs fly out which kill every man they hit. The earth is mined and filled with powder; when men walk upon it, the powders is lit and up go the men! There is no fighting face to face. Guns massacre regiments sitting ten miles off. Put swords or pikes or staves in our hands and the enemy over us with like arms then indeed we should show you how to fight face to face! But if no one faces us what can we do? No one stands up to fight us. Everyone sits in a burrow underground. They fight in the sky, on the see in battleships, under the earth in mines. My friend, a man who fights upon the ground can hardly escape. You tell me to fight face to the foe. Die we must – but alas, not facing the foe! My friend, the cannons are such that they throw a shell weighing twelve maunds (12x40 kgs) which destroys the earth five hundred paces round about where it falls. We are in France. It is very cold country….. It is a fair country and the people are like angels. All they lack is wings….. The fighting is along a line of 300 miles. England, France, Italy, Belgium, Russia – these five are on one side; Germany, Turkey, Austria, Hungary, Bulgaria – these five on the other. The battle sways evenly balanced. None can kill the other. When it ends there will be peace. No one knows when this will be.”

*Page 51, A Sikh wrote to a friend in Punjab about the Battle of New Chappell, France.

“Now hear what happened to us. On the 9th March, the General told the Lahore and Meerut Divisions that they were to make a grand attack and glorify the name of the Punjab throughout Europe. The attack came off on the 10th at seve o’ clock in the morning. We fix bayonets and look towards the enemy. The enemy trenches are two yards off. They have been well built. In front is barded wire and we are not expected to attack here. With a shout to our Guru we hurl ourselves forward. The enemy’s bullets scorch our heroes while machine guns and cannons spread their shot upon us. We leap the wire entanglements and overwhelm the enemy, killing some and capturing the rest. On the 10th we captured 1050 Germans and took four lines of trenches defending the city of La Bassee. Here from the beginning the enemy have been very strong. On the 10th and 12th we took two miles of enemy position. Next day at five o’ clock the Germans attacked in eight lines. There was fine fighting on the battlefield. Eight lines of the enemy were destroyed. We also suffered grea loss in killed and wounded. On that day no one took thought of his friend and the slightly wounded man made his way back himself. If severely wounded, a man lay out in the battlefield. When the sun set in the evening, the rain began to fall. The wounded were picked up and sent back. The enemy attacked fiercely but were beaten back with great loss. We did not give up our trenches but pressed the enemy very hard. They could not recapture their lost lines. From the 10th to the 25th the German lost 70,613 men.”

*This letter (298) of Ganga Singh (Sikh) to Dafadar Jaswant Singh ( attached 6th cavalry, France ) written on 21st April 1916 in Gurmukhi , after the army has left Europe after 14 months and went to fight in Mesopotamia against Turkey shows the difficulties being faced by Lahore Division there.

“The 7th Brigade is surrounded in Mesopotamia*. Attempts have been made to rescue them, but without success. There was a fight on 6th March and heavy losses to us in the attempt to relieve them. Some men of ours are in the besieged force, twenty in number. They have eaten their horses and mules. They have a quarter of a pound of flour each per Diem. We are hopeful of being sent to join the relieving force.

*After being checked at Ctesiphon in November 1915, General Townshend’s British Indian force fell back to Kut – al – Amara, where they were invested by the Turks early in December. After enduring a five month siege, Townshend surrendered on 29th April 1916.

Courtesy of:

Omissi, David, Indian voices of the Great War. Soldier’s letters, 1914-18, London, 1999.
Note : The transcripts of the original letters are kept in the India Office Library at the British Library, London.
*Gurmukhi or Punjabi is the language of the people of Punjab.
*Urdu is the language of the people of Pakistan.
*(253, 254, 255 etc are letter numbers)

Comments

Reply to PCJ2K

But the thing is, it was a fight for righteousness. The Nazis were killing innocent people! they had concentration and work camps all over Germany and Austria. Millions of men women and children were killed for no reason. Thats called genocide! Also, Germany's allies were trying to invade India. So were the Sikhs supposed to stand by and do nothing. I think you need to do a bit of research my friend. We all owe our lives to the Soldiers, pilots and sailors who fought for our freedom!

ww1 - sikhs

I'll help you guys out. WW1 started when a Serbian national killed Prince Ferdinand of the Austrian-Hungarian empire. The nations of Europe at that time had non-aggression pacts. If one country was attacked, than the others would help out. This war was not for freedom, human rights or democracy. The Kings and Queens of Europe fought this war like the other wars they fought, for grains of dirt, or glory, or whatever. The comman man got stuck in the middle. The Sikhs fought because they were part of the British Empire and they had too, just like the canadians, the australians etc... The Sikh's have one god - ek onkar. The Guru's are just teachers-philosopher's. The Guru Granth Sahib - the living Guru - has many authors included Kabir, a muslim philosopher. Not all of India believed in or practiced Hinduism before Islam. There was buddhism, and many other minor religions. Also many people were pagan's, or had no distinct religion. Many Sikhs came from the Jhat tribes, just as present many punjabi's classify themselves as jhats (jats). Regarding partition. AT this time there were over 500 princely states in India and Pakistan that controlled over 1/3 of the population, so separation did not come easy. IN 1947 there were 16 million muslims, 8 million hindus, and 4 million sikhs in the Punjab, don't you think there would be some conflict. There were many issues to tackle at this time not just the Punjab. India is a huge country with thousands of dialects, many languages, many religions. More diversity than even people that live in India can comprehend.

Guru bless these brave soldier

what a sacrifice ..!!! unparallel in world history . They continued this legacy from Guru TeghBahdur sahib . But people like Ramesh Kumar mindset can't understand and recognised this . Because these people are 100% biased . Arshi and Kanverjit veerji Well said ....

PCJ2K you woudn't understand...

Reading the previous posts you will never understand, please just be happy being the dude that you are.....Have you ever heard of the saying "Coudn't see the wood for the trees"?

I do understand that Sikhs

I do understand that Sikhs are brainwashed when it comes to fighting a war. That's why they brag about fighting in wars. But that's all it is. They are not concerned about whether or not the war is justified and was for a good cause...

Sikhs are the real heroes of India

Some individuals, like Romesh Kumar refuse to regard Sikhs as the real heroes of India. The contributions made by Sikh Gurus and their Sikhs for the well-being and stability of India are unparalleled, well known and acknowledged by the world. Yet some refuse to see this. SIKHS DO NOT HATE HINDUS – TO THE CONTRARY THEY LOVE THEM – WHY ELSE WOULD THEY STAKE THEIR LIVES FOR CAUSES WHICH SOME TIMES DID NOT AFFECT THEM. They could well sit back and let the country ‘go to the dogs’ since it makes little difference who rules it when it comes to their rights. But Sikhs are incapable of doing so – such is the effect of their up bringing and beliefs. The entire DOCUMENTED history of India does not show reformers (whom we also respect) who come anywhere near the Sikh Gurus, yet some want to compare their legacy with that of Tamils and Marathas and God knows who. I have had the privilege of meeting many Marathas and Tamils and they have always put the sacrifices of the Sikh Gurus and their Sikhs well above any other. Sikhs have formed the wall which has guarded India against potential invaders – again the world knows it apart from a few who frequent this site. Any time someone has a nice thing to say about Sikhs RK has to jump in to say something to the contrary. Why can’t he for once say something in favour of Sikhs without qualifying his remarks – e.g. yes Sikhs are great but ……… But what? I am not sure who he represents but Sikhs having so many enemies, one shudders to hazard a guess. I have personally resisted responding to his posts but recently I found it difficult to swallow when he questioned even the most innocent and objective remarks I made. Then he writes a long response to Kanwarjeet going all over the place and for me that was the end of the tether and hence my lengthy response earlier. So painful were some of the points he raised that it hurt. The point of this post is for the other well meaning Sikhs to RESOLVE TO UNITE AGAINST SUCH BIAS AND BIGOTRY AND DRIVE THESE ELEMENTS OUT SO THAT WE CAN CONCENTRATE OUR ENERGIES ON DISCUSSING, ANALYSING AND INTERPRETING THE SIKH SCRIPTURES rather than playing to the political manoeuvring of a few unscrupulous individuals. Sikhs are at enmity with no one. They have nothing against the vast majority of the population of India – we love India. They are only weary of a minority of individuals who incite the majority to fulfil their own sinister designs and self-interests.

My heart bleeds

It is hard, after looking at the photograph of slain Sikhs, not to shed a tear or two. The electrifying sensation that runs through the body cannot be explained - it is as if someone has thrust a hand and wrenched the heart out of your body. These are the true Sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh who fought for the protection and honour of others. They laid down their lives in the name of fairness, loyalty, justice and above all faith. We must salute these noble souls. How can anyone after looking at these photographs deny the sacrifice and contribution of the Sikhs for justice and peace? It is interesting (and relieving) to note that satire seems to leave the anti-elements speechless as opposed to polite and serious persuasion. Well done Kanwarjit ji, Satnam ji and Theodorous ji you have hit on the right antidote for sceptics and non-believers. My heart bleeds but satire may do the trick for the hardened souls.

arshi...., have you heard or

arshi...., have you heard or read someone denying the sacrifices and contribution made by sikhs for national cause ?

Just an expression of sentiments

I was just expressing my sentiments and endorsing the views expressed by some well-meaning Sikhs. If you haven't denied the contribution made by Sikhs than you need not worry and I can only commend you for your appreciation for the scarifice by Sikhs for and on behalf of the humanity, without regard to race, religion or creed.

For PCJ2K, Romesh Kumar, Arti etc.

Oh my God - is this really possible!! No way it must be another story concocted by the Sikhs - you see these cunning Sikhs have a habit of always fighting - we must tell them that the Turban is only something that was needed a few hundred years ago. They are modern now and they dont need their uniqueness. They better be careful with such stories. "SIKH GOD's" must be helping them somehow publish such propaganda with the help of the enemy (GORAS and WESTERNERS). We must not let this story be told in India - as it is we have played such a great role in modifying history as per our needs - we can change this story too. Sikhs tsk tsk - they are Hindus only, made by Hindus for protection of Hindus - after all their "FIRST GOD" Nanak was descendent of Luv and "LAST GOD" was descendent of Kush. I got to run ... I need to tell RSS about this story...................................................... SATIRE INTENDED and BHUL CHUK MAAF to my real BROTHERS AND SISTERS (whether you be Hindu, Sikh or Muslim - as long as you recognize the truth you are REAL)!!!!!

kanwarjeet....,Again read, think(if you can) and find answers.

Bujurag kanwarjit......., I replied to your post but either you or a 'conncerned sikh' deleted it. Let me try again. As you rightly said that I do not know much about these affairs, I honestly admit this fact and that is why we like to read and write to know more and more from people like you. You being a sikh should have known that sikh literally means a learner, a follower a disciple. Sikh is local/punjabi pronounciation of Sanskrit word SHISHYA. As you know a lot you must be aware of the fact that Sanskrit is mother of all languages and scripts in Indian subcontinent and beyond. I am impressed with your display and show of loyality towards your motherland-India. In fact it is not even required to be shown or talked of, it is natural and obvious as India is motherland of sikhs. It is moral duty of citizens towards their motherland unless someone is a traitor. So do not expect Indian nation to take it as a special favor or support. Secondly, this nation has such a strong foundatioon that she has survived all the assasins for milleniums. She has seen different ages, eras, circumstances, good/bad times and situations for milleniums. Sikhism is a three centuries old story. Sikhism came as a philosophy, an ideology, a revolution, a resistance against oppressive mughal regime of aurangzeb in a part of north-west mughal India and of course changed the equations. What was happening and happened in other parts of India ? Pls try to read History of India to know it. How can someone say that sikhs brought/gave freedom to India ? Did sikhs come from other planet or any other continent to India with sole purpose of liberating India ? They are sons of the soil. And why tamils or gujarati or marathi should have come to rescue punjabis in punjab from mughal opression ? They were doing more or less same to their capacity in their own way in other parts and regions of India. Same thing apply to freedom struggle from british. Bottom line is that all the communities with exception of none have contributed to their capacity and expertise to bring Indian nation to a state where we are in. To quote of GANGU or CHANDU speaks nothing except your 'madarsa' type of education and upbringing(whole of your post and comments ,infact). He was personal servant, follower and disciple of Tenth Master, hence a SIKH. Another hindu baniya who made most costliest land deal on the earth to pay for a piece of land to cremate younger Sahibzadas was not follower or disciple of Tenth Master. It is individual's character which necessarily does not represent a community. Gangus and chandus do not represent more than one billion indian and NRI hindus in world nor these one billion plus people need a special class or community of people in India or abroad to help/protect them. Guru sahibans had sacrificed for a cause, what is happening today is opposite of that cause. There were no separate sikhs at the time of abdali, those women were punjabi, you can not call them hindu girls alone. There is no ban on calling marriage an anand karaj or vivah or shadi nor state advises the procedure of marriage ceremony to any of the faiths, act covers the socio-legal side only which is based on similiarities and commanalities. It is natural and of course painful that some innocent and ignorant people are killed when caught in cross fire between terrorists and security forces. Who were those two servants who followed Tenth Guru Sahib to Nanded and stabbed him ? We have lost half of Indian territory in east and west including more than half of punjab and birth place of First Master to the descendants of those two. After independence, religious color was added to all demand of punjabis and punjab ignoring hindu majority, making all the demands 'case sensitive' hence unfulfilled. Extreme elements joined hands with descendants of mughals against hindus and Indian state killing tens of thousands and displacing hundreds of thousands of hindus in Punjab. This led to army intervention in Punjab, followed by backstabbing of Prime Minister resulting in most henious 84 riots and so on. This is the other side of coin I meant, bujurag ji.

RK: How dare you?

I have been avoiding tangling with you as I have followed your comments and how you distort things. However, you leave little option but for me to respond. Although the comments are directed at Kanwarjeet ji, I could not help noting your double standards. On the one hand you are asking me in an earlier comment “have you heard or read someone denying the sacrifices and contribution made by Sikhs for national cause? “ and on the hand you say “How can someone say that Sikhs brought/gave freedom to India?” What were those sacrifices for? Peanuts? Make up your mind! BTW how is the fact that Sanskrit is mother of all languages relevant to this discussion? Aren’t you somewhat patronising when you say “I am impressed with your display and show of loyalty towards your motherland-India?” …. Do the valiant Sikhs care for your opinion? You write “It is moral duty of citizens towards their motherland unless someone is a traitor.” …. You do not need to remind Sikhs of their moral duty – they know it only too well. Have you ever considered the moral duty of non-Sikhs? Then you write “it is natural and obvious as India is motherland of Sikhs.” …. True that is why they lay down their lives for India despite some ungrateful lunatics. Do you recognise the name Tytler? “So do not expect Indian nation to take it as a special favor or support”…. That is the trouble - just take the Sikhs for granted! You then raise the point “Did Sikhs come from other planet or any other continent to India with sole purpose of liberating India?” No they did not but it is their misfortune that they have to share it with some ungrateful double-standard snakes. “Another hindu baniya who made most costliest land deal on the earth to pay for a piece of land to cremate younger Sahibzadas was not follower or disciple of Tenth Master.” …… What point are you trying to make here – it is despicable even to think of or to say this. It shows the low-life minds some people have. Who is saying all Hindus are bad? There are many terrific individuals that I have personally have had the pleasure of knowing. It is the type who visits such well meaning websites to play politics of their own that Sikhs must be weary off. UNFORTUNATELY IT IS ALWAYS THE MINORITY WITH STRONG VIEWS AND IN STRONG POSITIONS WHO PERPETRATE INJUSTICE AND CAUSE HATRED. You say “We have lost half of Indian territory in east and west including more than half of Punjab and birth place of First Master to the descendants of those two.” ……. Precisely my point - who paid the price? Please read the well researched article by MS Ahluwalia. I reproduce a few lines “THE PARTITION OF INDIA AND THE CREATION OF PAKISTAN HAVE NOT BEEN STUDIED IN ONE IMPORTANT ASPECT THAT CONCERNS THE SIKH COMMUNITY. The Sikhs, as an important religious minority were mainly concentrated in the region, which now forms the Pakistani Punjab. The events leading to the partition made the Sikhs the main victims of circumstance. The tussle between the Congress and the Muslim League led both to follow their own paths leading to non-cooperation and direct action respectively. (The chronology here has been sacrificed for coherence). The events leading to partition show that the Sikhs could not withstand the massive onslaught of religious fanaticism and separatism of the Muslim League on the one hand and the Congress tactics for the independence on the other. INDEPENDENCE WAS ACHIEVED AT A COST CHIEFLY PAID BY THE SIKHS OF PUNJAB.” http://www.sikhspectrum.com/112007/1947.htm You complain “Extreme elements joined hands with descendants of mughals against hindus and Indian state killing tens of thousands and displacing hundreds of thousands of hindus in Punjab.” … I just cannot believe what I am reading. At last you show your true colours – you Invent the massacre of Hindus and decry the genuine massacre of Sikhs. There is no doubt left in my mind that you are violently anti-Sikh masquerading here as a sympathizer shifting his ground all the time. No well meaning Sikh on this site harbours a hatred for Hindus – any dislike they have is for a minority of individuals like you who unfortunately form the majority in the Indian Parliament. Towards the end you say “This led to army intervention in Punjab, followed by backstabbing of Prime Minister resulting in most heinous 84 riots and so on.” … Are you some how justifying the 1984 riots? How low can one stoop. I am wondering whether I need to pass a resolution not to respond to comments of the kind you make as they are not even worthy of response – but one has to make an exception or two for the sake of one’s faith - a small sacrifice. I am sure you will also get a befitting reply from the gentleman you initially aimed your comments at. May you see the light!

arshi...., making mention of

arshi...., making mention of course of events does not mean justification of 84 riots. No sane individual can justify it. To have unbiased approach does not mean double standards. There are countless sikhs who do not like many things about sikhs. It does not mean they are anti-sikh. This is just individual choice and pesonal matter.Same applies to hindus and people of other faiths. It is you who is representing a radical ideology which has no place in modern world. There are .001% sikhs who might be sharing ideology with that of yours. There is nothing new in your post to be replied.

Unbiased approach – what a joke!

RK: True there are differences of opinions amongst Sikhs but they were all behind Jarnail Singh when he lobbed the shoe in Chidambaram's direction. Every family has its squabbles but in the event of crises they do close ranks. Most of the Sikhs posting on this site agree with my ideology of love and peace. All I am doing is pointing out the the facts. IF YOU READ MY POSTS CAREFULLY I HAVE NOT SAID ANYTHING AGAINST HINDUS OR THEIR BELIEFS. I have only questioned the intentions of a minority of individuals who incite the majority to fulfil their own sinister designs and self-interests by spreading hatred and dividing people including Sikhs. if anything, you are the lone voice here barring one or two.

arshi......, fortunately I

arshi......, fortunately I know a lot about sikhs and sikhism. Sikhs are not divided over sikhism and nationalism. It is a class (.001%) who are stainig the image of sikhism, dividing the sikhs and as a result religious sects (offshoots of sikhism) are mushrooming. Jarnail Singh has done a publicity stunt which was supposed to have been condemned by positive thinking sikhs. He is a journalist who had easy access to do the same to Tytler or Sajjan. That would have been a service to the panth. Being anti or pro any of the faiths on part of all of us does not mean and matter. Show goes on and is going on.

Sentiments and consequences

You know about Sikhism and Sikhs- so do I - been one all my life. Ofcourse there are divisions amongst Sikhs some resulting in offshoots. This happens to any faith but the mainstream Sikhism will always survive - like it or not. True Jarnail Singh may have allowed himself to be carried away but we do not fully appreciate the circumstances leading to the lobbing of the shoe. If you read the reports on this site and views expressed in the media Jarnail Singh is a popular journalist respected by his colleagues. Whilst most people (including myself) would not condone his act, it is equally important to understand what drove a responsible journalist to such an extreme. Anything can happen when sentiments run high - especially in a place like India.

Yeah Romesh Kumar -sure...

Funny how this works. When someone doesn't have any points left to debate on and is cornered then the other person's points are nothing new. Simple question for you - do you agree with the article or not?

Kanwarjeet: Remarkable restraint

Well said Kanwarjeet ji. I am shocked to learn of your personal harrowing experience (to put it mildly) in the 1984 genocide. You are showing remarkable restraint under the circumstances. Most people would not forget and forgive. I have lived all my life abroad barring the first few years and I remember reading two books on the 1984 tragedy and how I cried – I cannot even begin to imagine your grief. All this discussion must be opening up old wounds. Wonder how RK would feel if the shoe was on the other foot – he will be singing a totally new tune not to mention inventing different statistics.

arshi....., You have not

arshi....., You have not lived in Punjab/India. I am eyewitness to all what has happened there during past 50 years.

Have loved India for over 60 years

Well we are gradually putting the picture together. We will finally learn where you are coming from. Who knows in different circumstances we might even like eachother - not that I dislike or hate you now - it is against my Sikh teachings. However, your profile shows you are currently living in Nigeria - interesting I know and have trained hundreds of Nigerians in the UK. Amazing we have a little more in common than I thought. BTW despite being abroad, I have been following Indian events over the last 60 years - so there.

arshi ji....., tussi mere

arshi ji....., tussi mere nalon badde nikley umar ch.....!!!! sade ch pehlan ei bahut cheezan sanjhian ne. Reading, writing(though I am not good wordsmith), comments, punjabiat,discussion etc etc. Difference of opinion does never mean hatred or illwill. It is just like flowers of different colors in a garden which make it more beautiful and attractive. I do not think if any of the members in the forum are actively and actually involved in religious or political activities of any kind. All are INTERNET WARRIORS. Let's enjoy it and learn more and more from each other. We are in same time zone....good night, for now.

Romesh ji

Well said. We are friends and brothers after all. We have a common heritage and you and I (because of the many moons we have seen) do go back a long way in history and have seen how values have changed over time. I remember my school days when there were no tensions - only love and affection for each other and how we visited Gurdwaras and Mandirs and shared in each other's grief and happiness. Will the old times ever return? Perhaps not. I am definitely not a political person - my main interest is to research more into Gurbani and how it can help foster love and respect between human beings regardless of their colour, race or creed. Take care.

Pray enlighten us Mr. RK

Why dont you tell us in what context and what you intend to say!! Esp since you are in Nigeria...

kanwarjeet....., I have said

kanwarjeet....., I have said a lot and got misinterpreted. Beauty lies in the eyes of beholder. I am not settled in Nigeria nor I intend to, just shuttling between india, africa and western europe.

Arshi...

Lets not try to evoke RK. The Guru's taught us that we are bigger than all this. We cannot pass judgement on the attitude of others but can only control ourselves. However we must stand up and fight bcoz we are lions and not sheep ready to be slaughtered. One of my friends once got irritated and said why can the Sikhs not let bygones be bygones and forget 1984. My response was simple: We will forgive but not forget. History has a funny way of teaching itself, if you forget it it will repeat itself. Also it is easy to forget when you were not at the receiving end - ask the people who suffered. In the end we can only make the choice of what we want, what we do - teh result fortunately is decided by the good Lord himself - for RKs sake - Bhagwan Krishna made these comments himself.

Agreed Kanwarjeet

I think we have spent enough time on this topic and perhaps should give it a rest. I too need some rest since I am nursing a temporary illness. Posting would be a luxury when I get back into my work schedule.

kanwarjeet...., in terms of

kanwarjeet...., in terms of what ?

Thanks Arshi....

Thank you for making the points in my absence. PCJ2K and Romesh and Arti make some ridiculous arguments which irritated me to write my satirical comment. First of all let me explain something - I am not against any religion, community, tribe, caste etc etc. - this grouping list is endless. I pray for humanity but I also stand up for the right. I do not hate anyone - although to be honest I hated the Hindus after 1984 but realized that I was doing the same thing that others were doing - GENERALIZING and STEREOTYPING. Some Hindus unknown to us helped my youngest uncle survive a mob of 300-400 people chasing him on the streets of Delhi, on the other hand some Hindus who were known to us looted our homes - so although I hated the Hindus for sometime (3 years to be precise) after 1984, the Gurus words helped me get over it. Hate is what has brought the worl to its current affairs. However there is a big difference between hate and standing up for yourself / someone / your community. I cannot tolerate people not accepting the facts. Romesh Kumarji I never said that there was no one else other than Sikhs who contributed to India. If something is not A then it does not imply it is B - hope you get the logic. My rhetoric is that there are elements out there (in some cases that includes you as Arshi pointed out) who refuse to agree with the facts. It took Indian politics 25 years to accept that 1984 was indeed a genocide. 25 years - imagine that - that still does not mean justice though. The irony is that Sikhs who contributed a lot for their country's freedom (yes our country - we fought for it you see), are the ones being treated as traitors. Are there Sikh bad elements - of course. However the problem arises when people play double standards as has been happening in India for past few centuries and getting worse since 1947. My attack is against the ideologies of RSS and VHP. You cannot change your loyalty and views as per convenience - you have to stick to some principles. Here are some facts you fail to realize after hundreds of comments - you keep stating that Sikism is 3 centuries - you mean Guru Nanak was not a Sikh or maybe you do not know the math 2009-1469 - I can count 550 years. You say that th emarriage acts are irrespective of religious ideologies etc etc.. then why call it Hindu Marriage Act, why not Indian Marriage Act - smell a hypocrisy. Does any text book in India teach their studnets how Guru Tegh Bahadur sacrified his life for the Hindus - instead the shameless goes to such an extent to say that he did it bcoz Sikhism was founded to protect Hinduism - UTTERLY SHAMELESS TO CHANGE SUCH HIGH LEVEL OF MARTYRDOM FOR ONES OWN SELFISH POLITICAL NEEDS WON'T YOU SAY. Sushma Swaraj defending Chandu when we all know the history - why can you not accept the facts that what he did was wrong. Also on one hand you defend Chandu and ont he other you mention he was a Sikh - this implie staht you do agree he was wrong but do not want to accept it outwardly!!!! If you really think the British left India because of Gandhi and Nehru then God save you my friend. In fact if these two did not exist India would have been free in the early 1900s. You fail to acknowledge the bravery os Sikhs whether in WWs or Indian Independence - in fact I see you mocking at every piece of truth we throw at you. You do not have to be defensive about Hinduism - we respect it - but if you are offensive against Sikhism we promise we will fight tooth and nail to make our points heard. Now onto PCJ2K - Mr 2K not sure what you name implies but I guess that is not important. I do not like personal attacks so I will make a remark about the ranting you have had in past few weeks. You are generalizing your comments and bringing in a ne wconcept of SIKH GOD. Pray tell me what is a Sikh God??? When Sikhism clearly tells us that there is one supreme Lord and there is no Hindu or Muslim all are God's children!!! Also you keep making comments about Sikh hypocrisy without providing any susbtance to your comments. Nowhere does Sikh religion ask you to do anything against any other individual - so not sure where your points hold any strength. So if you are making your comments based on one or two individuals then maybe you need to come out of the well you are living in. Ms. Arti - do not justify your actions by giving excuses. If you have a problem with hair - CUT IT. No one is forcing anything onto you so you have no right to comment on what other Sikhs want. Sikhism was born a modern religion - it does not need modernization. What needs modernization is our culture and thought process. When girls are killed for the sake of having a son that is the unfortunate punjabi culture - Sikh religion has given the highest honor to a women - please refer to Gurbani for it. Many Sikhs give excuses for cutting their hair - eay at getting a job, no time in life, etc etc. You know any excuse works - they may as well say my cat died so I cut my hair - you see its a disease called EXCUSITIS so any excuse will work. Who said it was easy being a Sikh - truth is never easy to handle - same with Sikhi. In simpler terms everyone wants to sit at home and have a relaxed life since it is EASIER than going to work. Bottomline: Sikhs have no problem with any one else - if some sikh does then he is wrong and not following the Guru's principles. Convenience has no room in Sikhism - it takes guts to do anything different than what the others are doing - in other words it takes guts to be a lion and much easier to be one of the sheep. My comments are not intended to hurt anyone rather to fight for what I believe in and fight I must and fight I will. God Bless You All.

Kanwarjeet, So, you were

Kanwarjeet,

So, you were being sarcastic? I thought you were telling me that I had been sarcastic...

So, why were you being sarcastic? Why should you be sarcastic in serious dialog?

As I pointed out, Sikh God is Sikhs' perception of The Creator and Sikhs' perception doesn't necessarily refer to The Creator as it's only their perception, not The Real Creator...

If you believe that all people are The Creator's children and you believe in The Creator, then you must treat them all equally. If you don't, as most of the religions don't, then you are being hypocrite if you claim to believe in The Creator...

kanwarjeet....., I repeat it

kanwarjeet....., I repeat it that sikhism as organised,formal,distinct,different and separate religion is 310 years old. Indian Marriage Act is supposed to cover muslims which is in violation of Muslim Personal Law. Other communities because of same culture,traditions and customs are covered under Hindu Marriage Act. What difference does it make in practice ? British left India because of freedom struggle by masses regardless of community under the leadership of Gandhi, Nehru and many others. Fracture of backbone of British empire and military might by Germans and Japanese in 2nd world war worked as a booster. You have got intellect so try to read different versions and make your own analytical view. Nothing else is new in your post as well to respond.

RK

You have no pints to debate over. Neither do you have any decency to accept the truth. Your analysis of Sikhism is incorrect. A child is not born on the day it is brought in this world rather on the day the seed was laid down - maybe you dont understand that - concept of Sikhi is 500+ years old. See this is the problem - you are so rigid on your views that even the facts bounc eoff your rbrains. You have not even read my comment else so not point dicussing anything with you. Good luck and God bless.

Dude I was never sarcastic

Dude I was never sarcastic about anything. All of what I write is serious stuff. I am trying to ask kanwarjeet exactly what he is talking about so that I can respond properly.

If he is simply talking about Sikhs zealously fighting in war, that's not good enough for me. Zealously fighting in the war has no meaning unless the war is fought for a good reason...

Obviously, there are many other people besides Sikhs in the war who fought zealously.

I am not in military because I know war is hardly ever justified. But if I were to fight a war for human rights, I wouldn't need to be a Sikh to fight it....

Please clarify

PCJ: Are you responding to my comments? I am certainly not 'Dude'. I am not sure to whom your comments are addressed. I am only curious because as per the thread I thought I was responding to Romesh Kumar. Or are PCJ and Romesh Kumar the same person? Please clarify. If your comments were not addressed to me, I apologise.

No, my comments were not for

No, my comments were not for any dudette :)

For some reason, the post I was responding to has been deleted...

kanwarjeet, what are you

kanwarjeet, what are you saying?

SATIRE MY FRIEND SATIRE.

This is in response to all your comments you have posted in the last few weeks.

LOL

PCJ2K have you lost all sense of humor? LOL. You just took the bait LOL. You better leave it at that ;-)

You wanna be more

You wanna be more specific?

I have no clue what you are talking about....

So what you are saying is

So what you are saying is that WW1 was unjustified. So was the rest of the world supposed to stand by while Germany invaded neighbouring countries? Do you not think that sooner or later that Germany's actions would affect the whole world? Well it did, it was called WWII So were the Sikhs not fighting against tyranny and oppression? We owe our lives to all the soldiers, regardless of race, creed or nationality, who died for our freedom. Lets give them some respect. "They shall not grow old as we who are left grow old. Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning, WE WILL REMEMBER THEM."

I am not familiar with why

I am not familiar with why WWI took place in the first place and who Sikhs were fighting for...

PCJ2K you woudn't understand...

Have you heard of the expression: can't see the wood for the trees? Just as I woudn't try explaining electronics to my two year old, I won't try explaining to you either....

Like I said, I do understand

Like I said, I do understand and at the same time, I know it's useless. Unless you fight for the righteousness, you can not claim to be a Hero....

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