What should Sikh guys do when…

[BBBSingh]

…Sikh girls have Muslim Boyfriends?



Hello everybody

Apologies for asking this question here. I am not a bigot, nor do I wish to stir up any Muslim v Sikh debate/hatred. I just need to find an answer for a topic which is affecting me (even now I am finding it hard to type this)

I met a nice intelligent Sikh girl over Facebook last year, we talked a lot and although we agreed to meet up for a friendly coffee, it never happened for different reasons.

Later that year she started uni but we initially chatted when she moved into halls. However communication suddenly went very quiet. I sadly assumed that she met someone. I was disappointed to find out it was a Muslim boy who she had got with during a drunken Freshers week.

Over time I noticed on her Facebook that the nice intelligent girl I used to chat to was being replaced by a boozing party girl with attitude.
Her Muslim friends and boyfriend even started calling her by a Muslim name.

When I randomly bumped into her in central London one day, my polite hello was greeted by a cold stare, as if she was afraid and shocked to see me. I saw her turn away shivering with disgust (in my defence I am not an ugly guy!)

She has since semi blocked me on Facebook and I am wondering to remove her from my life completely

I feel sad and hurt about this so what should I do?

Some people have told me to report this to her family. Write on her Facebook page asking why she is dating a Muslim.
But I feel this wouldn’t benefit anyone?

I remember how I was at Uni, drinking and partying aswell
Am I being hypocritical by thinking girls shouldn’t be allowed to do the same?
Is this just her wild rebellious phase of life that will pass?

I would like to think this is an isolated incident but the sad truth is almost 70% of the Sikh girls I know are dating non Sikh guys

I am not a bigot, but it makes the job of finding a suitable girl to settle down with a lot harder for me.

Any words of advice would be welcome and again I hope I have not upset anyone here

Thanks

[KamaljitSingh]

BBBSinghji,There is a line in Gurbani''Kaam na Puche Jaat''(Sexual drives see no castes).In Punjab the same thing is said as ''Ishaq na dekhe Jaat''.The storm of sex is no less powerful.It is strong enough to uplift the veils and make the turbans,beards,beliefs fly away.Count your blessings dear friend that you are not married to this girl.Once I was watching a serial 'Neem ka Perh'written by some famous muslim who also wrote the dialogues of the famous serial 'Mahabharat'.In 'Neem ka Perh' a bad character tells his girlfriend'Woman have no castes.They are like water.Pure water.They simply acquire the colour of the tumbler they are put into.Do not worry about the difference in your caste and my caste''.This dialogue has crossed my mind several times.Opposite my house on the other side of the road lived a Sikh man who took a lot of pride calling himself a 'Badmash'(big bully).Once he said''Woman have no caste or religion.They are like an agricultural land and the land belongs to the one who ploughs it''.He said this thing several years ago and I am yet to decide whether he was right or wrong.Coming back to the point,a woman who would follow you in life would also be a Sikh(more or less).She would also reach the Guru if you are following the Guru.70% girls,you say,date with non Sikhs.The seed of this trend was sown when your elders had set their priorities and left their mother land in search of wealth.I can feel your anguish but if your first priority is Sikhi you can get a woman as well.However if your first priority is woman,you may not get Sikhi.Waheguruji ka Khalsa Waheguruji ki Fateh'

[BBBSingh]

Thank you for your reply, let me respond to your interesting points.

“The seed of this trend was sown when your elders had set their priorities and left their mother land in search of wealth"

-I can not blame my grandparents for moving here (I would not have been born otherwise)

The bigger question would be; is it the natural conclusion that eventually all Sikh migrants will merge and marry with non-Sikhs?

The smaller question is; what is the appropriate thing to do with the girl I posted about?

“…but if your first priority is Sikhi you can get a woman as well. However if your first priority is woman,you may not get Sikhi"

-I admit I am not orthodox Sikh, but my priority is to marry a Sikh girl so I can raise my children in my family ways.

When you say;

”Count your blessings dear friend that you are not married to this girl"

It would have been nice to even reach the considering stage. I am sad she has a boyfriend, but hurt & angry it’s not a Sikh guy.
Makes me question what my options are. This example is only highlighting the 70% of girls I know who aren’t available to marry

I am sorry if I am ranting. Just would like to know what I can do?

Does anyone else in the UK have a similar problem?

[kiran47]

hello :)

I don't mean to judge but i think maybe as this girl is drinking etc she's not that educated about sikhi? I know that as islam is a missionary religion, and one way they try to convert sikh girls is to go out with young naive sikh girls who arent that religious or into sikhi and then they fall in love and want to marry the guy but the quran says that a muslim cannot marry a "disbeliever"(non-muslim) so the girl converts not really knowing what she's doing. I think you should look out for this girl but in a friendly way, if she doesn't like you in that way then you're just going to annoy her. Maybe talk to her about sikhi and sort of just make sure she's aware of the situation and tell her to be careful? Obviously i don't know the guy she's going out with so I don't know his intentions but you say he's calling her by a muslim name and I know that muslims have become very skilled at convincing sikhs (who don't know much about their own religion/aren't religious) about islam. They twist things about the Gurus for example saying "Guru Nanak was a muslim anyway" or talking about things that are written in Guru Granth Sahib Ji but none of what they're saying is true but you wouldn't know if you weren't clued up about your own religion.so my advice is to look out for her as much as you can and make sure she knows all the little tricks they pull and make sure she knows the truth so she doesn't fall into any traps :)

[TyrantStryker]

BBBsingh

You cannot control others (and getting into different moods over other's behavior is never a good idea), all you can ask yourself in regards to life partner is, what is your end-game?

Is it to be with a girl who knows nothing about Sikhi but is genetically Punjabi and is born in a Sikh household?
Is it a girl who is Punjabi, from a Sikh household and *willing to learn* about Sikhi?
Does it matter if she's Punjabi but not interested in Sikhi?
Is it a woman who is interested in you, and thus knows that your Sikhi is important to you, so she will make it important to her?
What if she is non-Punjabi? Will that have an effect?

There are numerous questions you have to ask, none of which has to do with this girl you talk of, it's a matter of your own self and where YOU want to go and finding a partner that you feel best compliments your own journey, don't worry about paths taken by others.

As to your question of since Sikhs have moved across the globe, will there be more 'merging', I think that beyond the proof of millions of years of human evolution, simply by looking at the numbers one can conclude that yes, there will be.

Will that have an effect on Sikhi? Absolutely. Will it be a positive or negative change? That remains to be seen, if anything hopefully it moves Sikhi away from the chains of castism and some of the Punjabi 'cultural prides', that really, we Punjabis really should have no 'pride' in.

[BBBSingh]

Hello, I have been away so sorry for the slow response.
Kiran47 and TyrantStryker thank you for replying, I really appreciate your good advice.

Having had time to re-read my intial post it does come across as being bigoted and angry.
However since the point has been made it may be usefull to discuss it in detail.

TyrantStryker. Your words have really made me think! I admit I don’t have a complete answer, but perhaps studying the question is more important than finding the answer.

Kiran47. the girl (like me) is an average 2nd generation Sikh/Punjabi in UK, ie go Guruwara with family etc but not overly devout, perhaps more spiritual.

It is fair to say that now she doesn’t like me in that way, but initially when we were talking each day it was leading up to a deeper friendship/possible relationship.
Not to sound deluded but I felt we connected on a real level, and she would always initiate conversation with me often talking for hrs.

The tricks that Muslim guys use to trick Sikh girls is well documented. I am just concerned how well it seems to be working.

It seems the big problem is guys taking advantage of Sikh Uni girls who drink. (Which is interesting as Muslims don’t usually drink devout or otherwise)

But does the intoxication merely let loose the inhibitions or actually changing how they are??
I mentioned the 70% of girls who are with non Sikhs; almost all had their first “serious” relationship with Muslims.

TyrantStryker, you mentioned it was important to focus on my own path, but when I see numbers of wife material Sikh girls taken away, does that not affect my future?

To this day I have rarely seen Sikh girls under the age of 21 date Sikh guys.

What can guys do to counter this?

Is “keeping an eye on things and hope it doesn’t get too bad” the only approach?

Should we report her behavior to her family or would that be hypocritical?

[tejpalsingh]

BBB Singh ji wrote;
"To this day I have rarely seen Sikh girls under the age of 21 date Sikh guys.

What can guys do to counter this?

Is “keeping an eye on things and hope it doesn’t get too bad” the only approach?

Should we report her behavior to her family or would that be hypocritical?"

BBB Singh ji,
Please do report her behaviour to her famiIy before it is too late. This is nothing less than a service to Sikh Panth.
I have heard and read in the same forum/news that some muslim guys are paid for luring and converting Sikh girls to Islam.
If we dig deep into our history, you will find that Sikh panth is almost a bio-product of islamic cultural invasions of India.
Basically muslims are anti-hndu and always engage in exploiting religious sentiments of Sikhs to make them anti-hindu. It serves like killing two birds with one stone.
Happenings of the decade of 80s in India give muslims enough material to brainwash sikh girls of 20s to succeed in their sinister designs.
All sikh and hindu boys on finding sikh girls dating muslims must at least report the matter to the parents of girls so that parents know it on time. Thanks.

[topateksingh]

hi friends

Its natural for sikh girls to do a bit of experimenting out side the community in a multicultural pluralistic society like uk or north america. in fact a good many sikh boys also do the same. they may not indulge in sex but they do cross the religious boundaries by becoming friends with non sikhs. we may say they overcome class, language and religious barriers.

Now why sikh girls are attracted to muslim boys? simply bcoz the post 80 generation has seen and read a lot about the voilence being perpetuated on sikhs in India by hindus. In some cases they have actually experienced it and lost one or two family members. such type of events have led our youth, both boys and girls, to believe and realise that hindus in india are our enemy and that they will never tolerate a flourishing sikh religion. some people believe that to serve their sinister designs post colonial rulers of india divided punjab in to various smaller segments to weaken the strength of sikh panth, khalsa and sikh populace. In fact the hindu rulers and ruling class in india, be they from bjp, congress or vhp will never tolerate nor allow sikh religion to flourish and spread in other parts of india.

On the other hands muslims in india are a minority and they have also been subjected to hindu brutalities in ahmadabad (gujrat), ayoudhia and other parts. so it is natural for the two minorities, muslims and sikhs, to be more friendly towards each other.

this i guess explains the reason why sikh girls are attracted to muslim boys.

[BBBSingh]

Thanks for replying

TopatekSingh, I have to dissagree with you. From my own experiences at Uni in UK, Sikh girls are entering relationships with Muslims for 2 reasons

a) They are considered "bad boys" to get with. In the girl's eye this is her rebelling against her parents
b) They enter relationships with them when drunk.

I noticed at Uni, the Muslim guys would never chat up any Muslim girl, but always target tipsy Hindu and Sikhs (who were usually more drunk than the Hindus) who were soft targets for them.


TyrantStryker. I have thought about your earlier post. I would like to find and settle with a Sikh girl from a nice home so we can raise a family in the footsteps of my parents.

Already a hard task, made harder by nice girls being changed to sloppy seconds by sleazy Muslims boys who sweet talk them into whores whilst knowing they will marry either Muslim girls from home or convert the Sikh ones.

[Guest]

Dear BBBSingh,

Being a sikh girl, perhaps I can put some light on the situation. I kind of laughed inside as you mentioned most sikh girls first serious relationships seem to be with muslims. I could laugh at this because this was true for me as well. My one and only seriously relationship I have had was with an Iraqi muslim. As for your two reason why they date them, I have to disagree. Yes these may be possible reasons but it all depends on the situation and the girl. The reason I dated a muslim was partly because the sikh guys i knew who I wanted to date would not take me seriously, and after a few failed attempts to date a sikh, opted to being open minded on whom I dated. Then I met my x at my uni who was not judgmental and asked me to be his girlfriend on the second date. There was no confusion with him. No second guessing what his intentions were, whether he really liked me or not. He was blunt and honest. This lead to us dating for 2 yrs as if we were husband and wife. He asked to marry me multiple times without asking me to change my religion, but I refused his proposals because we did not have all our beliefs and values match up that are important to me. For example, he said I never had to be muslim but our children would have to be, no exceptions. This along with many other things, caused us to split. This relationship has given me many strengths though, and did away with many insecurities I once had. I am now focusing on only being serious with a sikh man now.
With the case of the girl you mentioned, the guy she is with may not truly care for her and may be only using her. Or he may really love her. But because you do not know the situation you should not judge. Really, you should never judge at all and leave that to god alone... but w/e. So what should you do? You should be her true friend. Do not try to be with her, manipulate her in any way (whether that be towards liking you or to dislike muslims), do not judge or chastise her, do not criticize or gossip about her. Merely be her friend. Through small acts of kindness on your part, she will come around to wanting to be around you. The more she feels comfortable being your friend, you can become someone she confides to. In this situation, you can support her and give her guidance through words of wisdom from sikhism. You can not force her to do anything though, as the saying goes "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." If you try to force her or manipulate her, than you are no better than the corrupted muslims you are afraid of. If you tell her parents, she may grow only to resent you. (But do feel free to tell her parents if she ever gets involved in seriously dangerous situations). So don't worry about what path she takes, just be there for her when she needs you. This may just be a learning period in her life. In return, this will make you closer to god. If you keep in mind what you want in life and don't go astray, god will provide it to you. *BIG HUG* and best of luck to both of you. Hope my advice helps :)