White sikh girl

Discussions on various aspects of Sikhi

Re: White sikh girl

Postby hrmn_asr » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:46 pm

sad to know Sikh girl ji :(

these ppl are not representing Sikhi .
hrmn_asr
New User
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:33 am

Re: White sikh girl

Postby singhbj » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:09 am

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Am sorry to hear about your experience but let me assure that not all Punjabis are bad.

Most of the Gurdwara's are constructed & managed by them, problem is lack of Divine wisdom (Gurmat) and it's application in life.

It's better to seek company of like minded Sikhs - same age group, mother tongue & cultural background.

Check out

http://www.newtosikhi.com/

http://sikhism.about.com/u/sty/initiati ... g_Sikhism/

http://www.sikhmatrimonials.com/sikhnet ... tnerSearch

http://www.3ho-europe.org/en/eventsacti ... -festival/

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh
singhbj
Power User
 
Posts: 1818
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 7:00 am

Re: White sikh girl

Postby Biriabc » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:55 pm

Waheguru Jee Kaa Khalsa
Waheguru Jee Kee Fateh

Hello Ovoxod

I was very dismayed and hurt on reading about your experience on a recent trip to England. If you are willing to mention which Gurdwara was it where you had this happen, then through local channels, one can try to educate the local sangat and discuss with the management committee.

It is written again and again in SGGS Jee that Waheguru manifests in His Creation which is of many varied, different and myriad forms.

ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਵਰਤੈ ਏਕੁ ਅਨੰਤਾ ॥
The Infinite One is pervading among all [p176 SGGS]

ਸਰਬ ਜੀਅ ਹਹਿ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਹਾਥਿ ॥ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਵਿਛੁੜੈ ਸਭ ਕੈ ਸਾਥਿ ॥
The One, who holds all creatures in His Hands, is never separated from them; He is with them all [p 177 SGGS]

ਏਕੈ ਕਨਿਕ ਅਨਿਕ ਭਾਤਿ ਸਾਜੀ ਬਹੁ ਪਰਕਾਰ ਰਚਾਇਓ ॥
The same gold is fashioned into various articles; just so, the Lord has made the many patterns of the creation [P205 SGGS]

It is also written to accept Waheguru’s Command as True and that only by following Guru’s Teachings can one’s doubt and prejudice can be dispelled.

It appears that whoever said these hurtful things to you does not understand this. There is no role of any bias in Sikh Religion and one should not judge anyone based on the colour of their skin, sex, sexuality etc.

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨੁ ॥
Accept the Order of God [i.e. God’s Command] as True [p177 SGGS]

ਸੰਤ ਕਾ ਕੀਆ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Whatever the Saint does [i.e. whatever Guru instructs] - accept that as True ||1||Pause||
ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਬਚਨੁ ਅਟਲ ਅਛੇਦ ॥
The Guru's Word [Teaching] is infallible and unchanging
ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਬਚਨਿ ਕਟੇ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਭੇਦ ॥
Through the Guru's Word, one’s doubt and prejudice are dispelled [p 177 SGGS]I

ਬੁਰਾ ਭਲਾ ਕੋਈ ਨ ਕਹੀਜੈ ॥
Do not say that anyone is good or bad [p186]

However one can pray to the Almighty Waheguru to enlighten all of us. It is understandable that you are hurt but be strong and have faith in Waheguru.

ਏਕ ਮਹਲਿ ਤੂੰ ਹੋਹਿ ਅਫਾਰੋ ਏਕ ਮਹਲਿ ਨਿਮਾਨੋ ॥
In one person, You are arrogant and proud, and in another, You are meek and humble
ਏਕ ਮਹਲਿ ਤੂੰ ਆਪੇ ਆਪੇ ਏਕ ਮਹਲਿ ਗਰੀਬਾਨੋ ॥੧॥
In one person, You are all by Yourself, and in another, You are poor ||1||
ਏਕ ਮਹਲਿ ਤੂੰ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਬਕਤਾ ਏਕ ਮਹਲਿ ਖਲੁ ਹੋਤਾ ॥
In one person, you are a religious scholar and a preacher [Pandit], and in another, You are just a fool [p206 SGGS]
ਕਾਠ ਕੀ ਪੁਤਰੀ ਕਹਾ ਕਰੈ ਬਪੁਰੀ ਖਿਲਾਵਨਹਾਰੋ ਜਾਨੈ ॥
What can the poor wooden puppet do? The Master Puppeteer knows everything
ਜੈਸਾ ਭੇਖੁ ਕਰਾਵੈ ਬਾਜੀਗਰੁ ਓਹੁ ਤੈਸੋ ਹੀ ਸਾਜੁ ਆਨੈ ॥੩॥
As the Puppeteer dresses the puppet, so is the role the puppet plays ||3||
ਅਨਿਕ ਕੋਠਰੀ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਭਾਤਿ ਕਰੀਆ ਆਪਿ ਹੋਆ ਰਖਵਾਰਾ ॥
The Lord has created the various chambers of assorted descriptions [i.e. beings of different types], and He Himself protects them
ਜੈਸੇ ਮਹਲਿ ਰਾਖੈ ਤੈਸੈ ਰਹਨਾ ਕਿਆ ਇਹੁ ਕਰੈ ਬਿਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥
As is that vessel in which the Lord places the soul, so does it dwell. What can this poor being do? ||4|| [P206 SGGS]


WJKK
WJKF
Biriabc
Active Forum User
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:46 am

Re: White sikh girl

Postby Romesh Kumar » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:28 am

Ovoxod wrote:Hello there,

I'm a amritdhari sikh, originally born in a christian family in a small country in Europe. I converted two years ago because of the death of my cousin who was a sikh and before the tragic accident he made me promise to visit gurdwara one day. It was all quite fine before I went for a trip to England and met some sikhs there.
So basically people were really mean to me - saying that I'm "white" and I cannot be a sikh (even accusing me of lying) and one women even said that I can convert back to christianity because no sikh man would ever marry me.. i wanted to visit gurdwara there but they didnt want to let me in.. To be honest, Im not even that white, I have dark hair and darker skin, but nevertheless what really shocked me was that people really didnt respect me as a sikh.. Only because I was not from Punkab but Europe.

I just wanted to share that with you all. I really do have mixed feelings now. I feel like this religion is absolutely perfect for me and it really helped me to connect with Waheguru but at the same time I dont feel very welcomed in it by other people.

It all really makes me sad. :(


Really sad, dismaying and hurting !!!!
Although this all is against the teachings of Guru Sahibs and SGGS Ji but custodians of religion and their like-minded followers have been doing the same after worldly abode of Guru Sahibs.Since you are a Sikh so must be knowing the origin and history of Sikhism. Sikhism despite being a reformist religion in India could not spread outside small Punjab state of today's India because of the same reasons what you have yourself encountered and experienced.May God give 'summat and gurmatt' to all.
User avatar
Romesh Kumar
Power User
 
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:04 am
Location: Nigeria

Re: White sikh girl

Postby IJJSingh » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:59 am

Ovoxod,

I am sorry to hear of your experience. There is no excuse for this type of behavior in Sikhism. There are all sorts of people in every religion, and Sikhism is no different. Do not lose heart and you will meet right minded people. I belong to a Jatt Sikh family from Punjab, and I know quite a few people in my circle of friends and in my family who have married across racial lines. When I look at my own children and my numerous nephews and nieces in North America, their social network includes people of all colors, religions and ethnicities. As suggested above, please contact the management of the Guruduara where you experienced this discrimination. The management should address this issue and may also be able to introduce you to people to provide you company and support.

Romesh ji wrote
Since you are a Sikh so must be knowing the origin and history of Sikhism. Sikhism despite being a reformist religion in India could not spread outside small Punjab state of today's India because of the same reasons what you have yourself encountered and experienced.


I humbly disagree with Romesh ji's view. I believe that his conclusion doesn't jibe well with human experience. Reformist views and positive role models do play a part in expanding a religion but this part is very small. Reformist agenda and role models have more influence in improving the health of a religion for people who are already members; I believe its affect on attracting new conversions is overblown. Religions have spread primarily because of state and economic influence. If you study expansion of all non-pagan traditions (Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc.) they all expanded through brutality and state sponsorship. It's not just conversion but even continuation of a religion has little to do with reformist agenda and fair mindedness of the co-religionists. If it were so, why would aboriginals in North and South America continue to stick so doggedly to Christianity? Why would slavery and post-slavery era blacks facing brutal discrimination in the Southern United States tend to be more religious than their cousins elsewhere defies all logic. History of Sikhism in India is no different than other world religions. At the time of the Gurus, there were Sikhs all over India, but these populations did not endure. Behavior of Punjabis had little impact on these populations outside Punjab. Sikhism spread in Punjab because of the Sikh rule. Proportionally, the Sikh population was the highest at the time of Ranjit Singh. Sikh population started declining with the decline of Sikh power. The religion remained confined to Punjab because Sikh power never expanded outside Punjab.

So what's the purpose of my statements above? I am not being an apologist for the bad behavior of Punjabis. Neither am I suggesting that we should not strive to be the best we can be. My point is that there is a tribal (anthropological) face of a religion and then there is spiritual face of a religion. We have to decide for ourselves what we want out of a religion. If you are looking for social acceptance and comfort of a tribe, then unless you are a Jatt living in shrinking areas in Punjab, Sikhism may not be a good choice. If you are after spirituality, then Sikhism has a lot to offer and in return you may have to put up with some nastiness from some Sikh and non-Sikh tribals.

Ovoxod: If you value what you are getting out of Sikh spirituality, you may have to deal with some nasty tribals in your newly adopted and the religion of your birth. Should you choose to continue, your journey will be eased if you sought like minded spiritual people, and believe me there is no shortage of such people.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh
IJJSingh
Active Forum User
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:49 am

Re: White sikh girl

Postby Romesh Kumar » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:08 pm

IJJSingh wrote:I humbly disagree with Romesh ji's view. I believe that his conclusion doesn't jibe well with human experience. Reformist views and positive role models do play a part in expanding a religion but this part is very small. Reformist agenda and role models have more influence in improving the health of a religion for people who are already members; I believe its affect on attracting new conversions is overblown. Religions have spread primarily because of state and economic influence. If you study expansion of all non-pagan traditions (Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc.) they all expanded through brutality and state sponsorship. It's not just conversion but even continuation of a religion has little to do with reformist agenda and fair mindedness of the co-religionists. If it were so, why would aboriginals in North and South America continue to stick so doggedly to Christianity? Why would slavery and post-slavery era blacks facing brutal discrimination in the Southern United States tend to be more religious than their cousins elsewhere defies all logic. History of Sikhism in India is no different than other world religions. At the time of the Gurus, there were Sikhs all over India, but these populations did not endure. Behavior of Punjabis had little impact on these populations outside Punjab. Sikhism spread in Punjab because of the Sikh rule. Proportionally, the Sikh population was the highest at the time of Ranjit Singh. Sikh population started declining with the decline of Sikh power. The religion remained confined to Punjab because Sikh power never expanded outside Punjab.

So what's the purpose of my statements above? I am not being an apologist for the bad behavior of Punjabis. Neither am I suggesting that we should not strive to be the best we can be. My point is that there is a tribal (anthropological) face of a religion and then there is spiritual face of a religion. We have to decide for ourselves what we want out of a religion. If you are looking for social acceptance and comfort of a tribe, then unless you are a Jatt living in shrinking areas in Punjab, Sikhism may not be a good choice. If you are after spirituality, then Sikhism has a lot to offer and in return you may have to put up with some nastiness from some Sikh and non-Sikh tribals.



IJJSingh Ji,
I agree with every single word in your post but as one side of the coin and still humbly stick to my opinion as other side of the same coin. Thanks.
User avatar
Romesh Kumar
Power User
 
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:04 am
Location: Nigeria

Re: White sikh girl

Postby Silence » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:10 am

Hello White Sikh Girl,

I too am a white girl baptized catholic at 3 months of age and converted to Hinduism at 17 years old (almost 15 years ago). In my experience, and even today, i still occasionally get the gawking and smart remarks when i go to my Hindu temple, but when you take the time to reflect on the words and actions, you find that such people are foolish and must be forgiven for their foolishness. The important thing for you to remember is why you are doing this, the journey can be lonely, so be courageous, learn to free your mind of the nonsensical words and actions from others and always forgive.

Good luck!!
Silence
New User
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:57 pm

Re: White sikh girl

Postby jssingh » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:05 am

WOW! All I an say is that I admire your dedication to Sikhism. Don't give up! You can even come and teach at our Sikh Cultural school in Canada because you have so much enthusiasm! We would be glad to help you with your journey!
jssingh
New User
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:57 am
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Re: White sikh girl

Postby bachittar » Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:36 am

Dear Sikh,

Sat Siri Akal.

Please note, that I did not address you as white and or girl.
You have accepted Guru Granth Sahib as your Guru and have decided to live by the teachings therein. I respect you for being a Sikh and for deciding to live a life based on Sikh principles. It is all between you and your Guru. Others do not decide for you or for the Guru.
When one becomes a Sikh it is the decision of the individual. It is above color, creed, sex, caste, sub-caste, geographical back ground and whatever other divisions humans have developed so that some can control others.

I am afraid I have to admit that Punjabis do tend to discriminate, may be not all, but the majority do. It is their way to assert their so called superiority. I noted one of your respondents wrote a very well worded reply, but he had to mention that he came from a "Jatt Sikh family". Even he forgot that a Sikh is a Sikh and cannot have a prefix or after fix.

Unfortunately, we Sikhs have forgotten Guru Nanak's philosophy and tend to concentrate more on ritualism. Many will disagree but the emphasis is becoming more predominant on "Bana" and not Bani. I find it disgraceful when speaker after speaker at Gurdwaras put down people who are clean shaven as "Patit" when In Gurdwaras all should be welcome as they are according to Guru Nanak " Ek Pitaa Ekas Ke hum Barik"

UPSingh
bachittar
Active Forum User
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:46 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: White sikh girl

Postby Romesh Kumar » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:29 pm

bachittar wrote:I am afraid I have to admit that Punjabis do tend to discriminate, may be not all, but the majority do. It is their way to assert their so called superiority. I


That is the impression non-punjabis in india have about Punjabis in general and Sikhs in particular.Because they view Sikhism as a Punjabi religion and Sikhs have done nothing to wipe this impression off the minds of non-punjabi Indians.
User avatar
Romesh Kumar
Power User
 
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:04 am
Location: Nigeria

Next

Return to Sikhi Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests