Khalistan, a reality or a shambles?

[Nihal Singh Kanakpuria]

VeeruS and (Serjinder Singh Ji with due respect to you)

What in this world is the relevance of pre-partition Punjab with the concept of Khalistan? Even in history of Khalistan , off course none what so ever, apart from malice.

If you like it or not but Sikhs need a homeland, You can call it Khalistan or anything else , a land governed and ruled by Sikh Values, explicitly or implicitly , sure a lot of politically correct people might think and say No, and point out shortcomings of the general Khalistan movement , but they same would yearn to live in it if ever there was a land governed and ruled by Sikh values, a Sikh Homeland

Nihal

[VeeruS]

And don't forget our Jattstan :)

Don't we all want our own land? If it were up to me, I would want my own land, too.

But, we really have to see what kind of effect it has on us, especially spiritually. After all, spiritual health is most important or at least should be in a religion.

As a believer in The Creator, I want to appreciate the whole creation of The Creator. Therefore, I don't want to be boxed in a place even if I can call it my own.

Please keep in mind that majority of the people who claim to be Sikhs are not Khalistani. Therefore, Khalistanis make a very small minority.

Plus, you already have Punjab, which you can call your homeland. For majority of the times, it's ruled by Sikhs.

More importantly, Khalistanis need to see what kind effect their behavior has on the rest of the Sikhs. There have been many innocent people killed because of this so-called Khalistan. Khalistanis should know by now that Indian police are much more powerful and they should not give any more chances to kill innocent people in Punjab.

Killing of the innocent people is the only thing that bothers us. Innocent people get killed just because someone somewhere decided that he wants Khalistan.

If Khalistanis truly care for Sikhs in Punjab, they should make sure they never let the situation get to a point where innocent people are being killed.

But that's only someone with some compassion could think about.

[navjot.singh]

khalistan is a bad idea because:-
1. absence of strong and non-corrupt sikh leaders. it is a well known fact that most of the leadership that exists today is selfish, corrupt, authoritarian and goats in lions' fleshes.
2. both pakistan and india being hostile.
3. not many sikhs left in punjab. it is sad but true that number of goats in lions' fleshes is way more than the number of sikhs. most of the youth of the sikh kaum is already rottened due to westernisation and drug menace.
and many other factors which i have left as this itself is a matter of long debate.

[rayjay]

Please keep in mind that majority of the people who claim to be Sikhs are not Khalistani. Therefore, Khalistanis make a very small minority.

Plus, you already have Punjab, which you can call your homeland. For majority of the times, it's ruled by Sikhs.

More importantly, Khalistanis need to see what kind effect their behavior has on the rest of the Sikhs. There have been many innocent people killed because of this so-called Khalistan. Khalistanis should know by now that Indian police are much more powerful and they should not give any more chances to kill innocent people in Punjab.

Killing of the innocent people is the only thing that bothers us. Innocent people get killed just because someone somewhere decided that he wants Khalistan.

If Khalistanis truly care for Sikhs in Punjab, they should make sure they never let the situation get to a point where innocent people are being killed.

If you look at the history of Punjab i think that it is clearly the Sikh land. Punjab is for all punjabis whether hindu, muslim, sikh, bhuddist...etc but the point is that it should be recognised as secular and and independant state. Not one located in an Islamic republic, i.e. pakistan, or India,

If you think Sikhs can call Punjab our Homeland as it stands at the moment located in India, then it should be identifiable as a sperate country as it once was before the british conquered it.

Your argument that sikhs should just accept defeat because we are out-gunned by the Punjabi police is a Joke. Our gurus faught all odds against Islamic Rule and defended Punjab as well as the Hindu faith. If it were not for sikhs, Hinduism would have vanished from Punjab.

I don't think submitting to a Hindu governemt would be re-inforced by our Guru's teachings or religious beleifs. It is an insult to our heritage that the land which our ancestors died for is now half ruled by the very people they were trying to defend against and the other half by the people who we defended which have now launched a campaign to destroy our identity and religion.

No Sikh will ever accept Punjab being ruled by a foreign governemt. This is a disgrace to our history.

Secondly a campaign for Punjabi independence is a Non-violent movement which is being promoted and has gained much more legitimacy and resonance to punjabi people and will not result in loss of inocent life.

Scotland is recognised as a seperate country from England, yet Scotland still holds central government in England/UK. This is the goal for an independant Punjab. Which is entirely acheivable by political means.

[VeeruS]

If you look at the history of Punjab i think that it is clearly the Sikh land. Punjab is for all punjabis whether hindu, muslim, sikh, bhuddist...etc but the point is that it should be recognised as secular and and independant state.

How do you determined that a state should be recognized as an independent state? If Punjab is for all of the Punjabis, then why should it be called Khalistan, which sounds more like a Sikh Land?

If you look at the History, it's been more of a Jatt Land than Sikh Land because majority of the land has been owned by Jatts. Jatts existed even before Sikhism. But this does not mean I want JattStan. It's closed-mindedness that creates separatist mentality among people.

Majority of Sikhs who own land in Punjab are NOT Khalistani.

Your argument that sikhs should just accept defeat because we are out-gunned by the Punjabi police is a Joke. Our gurus faught all odds against Islamic Rule and defended Punjab as well as the Hindu faith. If it were not for sikhs, Hinduism would have vanished from Punjab.

Are you sure that Sikh gurus were fighting for the same thing as Khaistani are today?

It is an insult to our heritage that the land which our ancestors died for is now half ruled by the very people they were trying to defend against and the other half by the people who we defended which have now launched a campaign to destroy our identity and religion.

Are you saying that it's an insult to your heritage that Sikhs only own half of the land in Punjab and Hindus own the other half? Aren't you contradicting yourself again in the same post. First you said Punjab was for all Punjabi and now you are indicating that it bothers you to see Hindus owning the other half of the land in Punjab.

[rayjay]

How do you determined that a state should be recognized as an independent state? If Punjab is for all of the Punjabis, then why should it be called Khalistan, which sounds more like a Sikh Land?

Please read my comments before replying. I beleive in an independant state of Punjab and NOT Khalisthan. I think the land of Punjab should be a Punjabi Republic for all ethnic Punjabis.

If you look at the History, it's been more of a Jatt Land than Sikh Land because majority of the land has been owned by Jatts. Jatts existed even before Sikhism. But this does not mean I want JattStan. It's closed-mindedness that creates separatist mentality among people.

...which is why I say all Punjab is for all Punjabi's not just one small sub-group of Punjabi's.

Are you sure that Sikh gurus were fighting for the same thing as Khaistani are today?

The Sikh gurus faught for equality for all Punjabi people to live side by side regardless of caste, faith, color...etc without fear of persecution or discrimination. This is why I am supporting a campaign for a Punjabi Republic and not Khalisthan. I do not understand why the moderators keep allowing you to post comments when they are clearly inconsistent and have nothing to do with with prior comments and are straying from the topic of debate.

Are you saying that it's an insult to your heritage that Sikhs only own half of the land in Punjab and Hindus own the other half? Aren't you contradicting yourself again in the same post. First you said Punjab was for all Punjabi and now you are indicating that it bothers you to see Hindus owning the other half of the land in Punjab.

OK, to clarify for you. I am saying the fact that the Land of Punjab has been split up and devided is an insult to Sikh history. Whether it is currently under Hindu or Muslim rule is irrelevent. It should be one Land for all Punjabis.

[VeeruS]

Please read my comments before replying. I beleive in an independant state of Punjab and NOT Khalisthan. I think the land of Punjab should be a Punjabi Republic for all ethnic Punjabis.

But how do you determine that Punjab meets the criteria of being a Republic, I guess meaning a separate country?

As I said before, if Punjab were United, Sikhs would make only about 10% of total population today. Muslims would be about 64% and Hindus about 24%. This means that if there were democracy in so-called United-Punjab, Sikhs would be a minority and were a lot less likely to have much of a power in the government. Now, majority of the state Punjab is governed by Sikhs.

Why do you think that the rest of Punjabis want a separate country?

[rayjay]

But how do you determine that Punjab meets the criteria of being a Republic, I guess meaning a separate country

Ok, let me call It an Autonomous state then, instead of a Republic. I think this shall make more sense.

As I said before, if Punjab were United, Sikhs would make only about 10% of total population today. Muslims would be about 64% and Hindus about 24%. This means that if there were democracy in so-called United-Punjab, Sikhs would be a minority and were a lot less likely to have much of a power in the government. Now, majority of the state Punjab is governed by Sikhs.

Yes I see logic in your argument, now please let me address,

If punjab was united sikhs would make up about 10-15% of the population that is correct. The fact that we would be the minority in a Punjabi republic is of no concern as long as Punjab is one. Sikhs would happily relate and Identify this as our homeland.

If Punjab was a country and was democratic and confined to the principles of secularism this would not pose any problem for Sikhs. Some sikhs would still hold office and represent us accordingly.
One problem Sikhs are facing in India is complete disprespect of our heritage and culture, the further breakdown of the Punjab state and some would argue this the attempt to demolish our identities and culture. If the Punjab was autonomous and Sikhs were protected and there was no risk of Punjab being split up into smaller pieces, this would satisfy the Sikhs.

Why do you think that the rest of Punjabis want a separate country?

well, Punjabi people are a proud race and unfortunatley due to politics and propoganda by the Indo-Pak governments the Punjabi Identity and Punjabi Unity has been destroyed for selfish gain. Indians wish to create a national "Indian" Identity and Pakistan wish to create an "Urdu speaking, Pakistani" Identity, which, in turn, has sparked hatred and turned punjabi sub-divisions against one another.

I am supporting a campaign to re-unite nd strengthen the Punjabi Identity and for Punjabi awareness so Punjabi people can unite and realise thier potential to create a more efficient and Europeanised Nation than either India or Pakistan.

[UPSingh]

Khalistan and the whole movement is in a state of shambles - There is no doubt about it.
Power mongers started the whole think for their own power role and it has brought nothing but grief.

Sikhs do not need Khalistan or Punjab or a homeland. Guru Nanak whose birthday we celebrate tomorrow did not want to establish a Sikh identity but wanted humans to realize their true self.

Only Punjabis and more significantly Jatts want a homeland so they can push others around. Sikhs wish to serve all and always pray for Sarbat da Bhalla.

Maybe we should think about basics on this special day.

UPSingh

[Gauti]

While i was reading comments made by few, i just saw an advertisement of incredible India on TV featuring a Sardar Auto Driver helping a foreigner (tourist) followed by Amir Khan hugging him.. then my mind went to few sikh personalities who are/were in limilight in recent times - army chief, prime minister, milkha singh, bishan singh bedi, harbhajan singh, jagjit singh and so many more.. unable to figure out what this discussion is all about..

I am a hindu, lived best and most part of my life in Punjab, most of my good friends are Sardars, i go to Gurudwara for the simple reason that i get peace sitting inside a gurudwara, my father is going to gurudwara much before i was born, my fathers best friends are sardars. As part of research work my sister worked in a Punjab village for 5 years and she was treated as daughter of village infact on her weeding lot of people from village turned up and did all the ceremonies which they do would for their own daughters.....

feel really sad to see such discussions..there shouldn't be any discussion. i can't picture India without Punjab and Punjab without India.

Please note i stopped reading comments after second page so may be i am bit off track, apologies for that. Sorry if i've hurt anybodies feeling as i really got emotional thinking about Punjab being a separate country.