Khalistan, a reality or a shambles?

[VeeruS]

Lakwinder Ji,

Even in couple of your own posts above, when I mentioned justice for all, first you said that Maryada ( or religious protocol) prevails in a religious country and then you said that Sikhs do not debar anyone from coming to Gurdwara and even eating free food but in management, it must be Khalsa. By the way, the free food sounded as if mona and sehajdharis only went there to eat free food and did not contribute in the langar. The fact is that monas and sehajdharis contribute to the langar as well.

In addition, although I have not seen it in Harmandir Sahib, someone posted here on Sikhnet that there are two pictures ,one of a Sikh with turban on and the other one of a mona; the turbaned Sikh is referred to as a lion and a mona is referred to as a Jackal. Then again, I have been The Golden Temple only a couple of times in my life. So I might have missed it.

Also, currently, in the Sikh-controlled colleges, about 50% of the seats are reserved for Sikhs and there was a case when a girl was denied admissions under this quota even though she was a Sikhs but she did not meet all of the criteria of being a Sikh per the management.

It's impossible for me to understand how someone who claims to believe in the all mighty could distinguish people based on their looks. Remember, if you don't see God in all, you don't see God at all.

Today, these Sikhs don't have much in their control but whatever they have, they give more rights to the certain preferred Sikhs. Just imagine, the very same people running a country, only preferred Sikhs would have all of the rights. Then why should those non-preferred Sikhs want Khalistan?

[lakwinder singh]

Lakwinder Ji,

Even in couple of your own posts above, when I mentioned justice for all, first you said that Maryada ( or religious protocol) prevails in a religious country and then you said that Sikhs do not debar anyone from coming to Gurdwara and even eating free food but in management, it must be Khalsa. By the way, the free food sounded as if mona and sehajdharis only went there to eat free food and did not contribute in the langar. The fact is that monas and sehajdharis contribute to the langar as well.

In addition, although I have not seen it in Harmandir Sahib, someone posted here on Sikhnet that there are two pictures ,one of a Sikh with turban on and the other one of a mona; the turbaned Sikh is referred to as a lion and a mona is referred to as a Jackal. Then again, I have been The Golden Temple only a couple of times in my life. So I might have missed it.

Also, currently, in the Sikh-controlled colleges, about 50% of the seats are reserved for Sikhs and there was a case when a girl was denied admissions under this quota even though she was a Sikhs but she did not meet all of the criteria of being a Sikh per the management.

It's impossible for me to understand how someone who claims to believe in the all mighty could distinguish people based on their looks. Remember, if you don't see God in all, you don't see God at all.

Today, these Sikhs don't have much in their control but whatever they have, they give more rights to the certain preferred Sikhs. Just imagine, the very same people running a country, only preferred Sikhs would have all of the rights. Then why should those non-preferred Sikhs want Khalistan?

Veeru ji

PLease read my post again.I had written " In religious domain, maryada of religion should prevail." It means every religion has its own set rules and those rules should be adhered to.

Every one knows that sikhs have free kitchen in their Gurudwaras where everyone , sikh or non sikh, is entitled for free food. Let us, for example, take a case of mona.He can go to Gurudwara, is allowed to be there as much as he likes to be and is entitled to all privileges like any other sikh . Obviously there is no discrimination involved.

Abdel Gammel Nasser was President of Egypt in 1960s.Once on a visit to India , he with his staff visited Golden Temple and took langar there.He was so impressed by the experience that he emptied his pocket while donating money for langar.
As an outsider and a non sikh he did not feel any discrimination from sikhs.

Sikhs run those colleges with money donated by sikhs.They are justified to reserve certain percentage of seats for sikhs.Those who maintain sikh tenets should be admitted there.It is a way to encourage our youth to maintain sikh tenets. And that girl who was refused admission did go to court also challenging the decision of SGPC.For your kind information, court decided in favour of SGPC saying once someone transgress sikh code of conduct, they are not entitled for privileges reserved for sikhs.

Either one is a sikh or he is not a sikh.There is no permanent category in between. Sehadharis are those who are on the way to become a sikh. Someone is a mona today and tomorrow he may be a full fledged khalsa. So such categories do not exist in sikhi as they are just a transitory stages. It is wrong to look down upon monas as they are our brothers.They should be encouraged on their path to sikhi .

[VeeruS]

Lakwinder Ji,

You just prove my point that according to Khalistanis, monas and maybe even so-called Sehajdharis can come over and do seva and even contribute to Gurdwaras funds and Langar; however, they can never be considered Sikhs and can not have equal rights in any of the Sikh institutions and in a Sikh country.

That's exactly my point. This is the reason why it does not make sense for monas and sehajdharis to support Khalistan at all, especially not in a land owned mostly by monas and sehajdharis on the India side of Punjab.

Hopefully these monas and sehajdharis can understand that having Khalistan will only work against them and next time they fight against it and support people fighting against Khalistan.

Those Sikhs who discriminate against monas or any human being in colleges for example are biased people. A biased person can never achieve spiritual perfection, regardless of his attire or his religious practice. It really does not matter how religious a biased person claims to be. It really does not matter how many times a day he or she claims to do Paath or to do other religious practice. A biased person can never even be a saint. Then how can a biased person encourage others to be follow his and her footsteps into sainthood.

A biased person can only encourage others to be biased. Following a biased person footsteps, we can only produce more biased people and we very well know that biased people are bad for society.

When you enjoy your equal rights in America, it's not because someone discriminate against you. The same when everyone in this world enjoy equal rights only when people are not discriminated against and there are no biased people in power.

I understand why the court decided in favor for SGPC. That's because the college was considered a private institution. Now, just think about it. Where do they get the money to first build and then run these colleges? I am sure it comes from the Gurdwara Jharaava and where does the Jharaava come from? I am sure you know that all kinds of people contribute to Jharaava in Gurdwaras. They take the Jharaava from all kinds of people and then use the same Jharaava to discriminate against the same people who contributed. In my book, that's unethical.

This makes it even more dangerous to give them a country.

[lakwinder singh]

Veeru ji
Your concerns relate to present state of affairs.Most of these are self made assumptions and are not true. Tomorrow you may wish to enter Gurudwara sahib bareheaded and sewadar stops you, you will term it as discrimination.This is not discrimination but a violation of protocols.

As written in my last post there is no permanent category of monas and sehajdharis in sikhism.Sikh is a follower of Guru sahib's teachings.We had ten Gurus and they were one jyot.Our last Guru Gobind singh ji has given us a code of conduct and one of those is to have unshaven head or long hair on head.A sikh is that person who follows his Guru's edict. Those who disobey his Guru are called manmukhs or self willed.Gurbani comes very heavily on this category.


ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਕਰਣੀ ਸਾਰੁ ॥
O my mind, under Guru's Instruction, do good deeds.

ang 559

ਨਾਨਕ ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਬੰਧੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕਰਾਏ ॥
O Nanak, the self-willed manmukhs remain in bondage; the Gurmukhs are liberated.
ang 559

Sikh Gurudwaras do not run on donations of a few who think by donating they are doing a favour. A sikh is duty bound under instructions of Guru sahib to contribute a part of his earnings to Gurudawara sahibs.We should not contribute money to Gurudwaras imposing conditions.Such donation is not acceptable to Guru sahib.

Instead of leveling accusations we should try to improve our shortcomings. Rabindra Nath Tagore visited Harmandir sahib with his family and was so impressed that he stopped shaving his hair and beard. He was not even a sikh.Let us pray to Guru sahib to grant us charhdi kala.

[Nihal Singh Kanakpuria]

VeeruS

Why should a sehajdhari or a mona have voting rights for a institute when they have themselves demonstrated lack of commitment towards the faith that the institute preserves and protects.

And as usual you are comparing apples with toasters, SGPC is religious institute, where as concept of khalistan is more administrative, administration based on Sikh values. Administration where Sikh values are protect, preserved and practiced.

I am a sehajdhari who says this and there are plenty others who believe that they should demonstrate or live with a certain level of commitment in case they want to have voting rights or say in how a institute that protects Sikhs values works as simple as that.

I think your case of a typical spiritualist who is scared of adherence, someone who believes in self indigence more than anything, and is even more scared or insecure of people who have the commitment to adhere.


-Nihal

[lakwinder singh]

VeeruS

Why should a sehajdhari or a mona have voting rights for a institute when they have themselves demonstrated lack of commitment towards the faith that the institute preserves and protects.

And as usual you are comparing apples with toasters, SGPC is religious institute, where as concept of khalistan is more administrative, administration based on Sikh values. Administration where Sikh values are protect, preserved and practiced.

I am a sehajdhari who says this and there are plenty others who believe that they should demonstrate or live with a certain level of commitment in case they want to have voting rights or say in how a institute that protects Sikhs values works as simple as that.

I think your case of a typical spiritualist who is scared of adherence, someone who believes in self indigence more than anything, and is even more scared or insecure of people who have the commitment to adhere.


-Nihal

Very well said, Nihal Singh ji.

First of all there is no term as sehajdhari in Gurudwara act.It is a coined term.Mr Ranu, an ex BJP worker, want voting rights so that they could control our Gurudawras by proxy in the long run.He dons a turban.He was having extra marital affairs with someone's wife and when beaten up by the girls in-laws, his turban came off and there was mr Ranu with cut hair.

So he was wearing turban to draw propaganda mileage. There is no commitment to faith.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqb4g3sayL0

[VeeruS]

As far as Khalistan goes, people not having right to vote is more than enough reason for Khalistan not to exist.

Simply being a religious is not a sign of commitment to The Almighty. The Almighty is way beyond anybody's imagination. You can not measure infinite with finite.

It's ignorance that when people claim that they are committed to The Almighty by wearing religious clothes and/or even practicing a religion.

Your real commitment is determined by your behavior towards your fellow-beings. If your behavior has negative contribution to humanity, it shows lack of commitment to The Almighty. When you create bias among your fellow-human beings, it clearly shows that you are not committed.

This is all because people have not been understand the real message from the saints. Saints claimed oneness of all mankind because they achieved a certain state of spirituality that they could not see any difference among humans and they were unbiased.

Any practice that creates bias is wrong and it can only take you away from The Almighty.

I am not why anybody should have any desire at all follow footsteps of biased people if their goal is to follow footsteps of saints.

One thing for sure Khalistan must not exist and maybe there is a good reason why it did not come into existence when India and Paksitan split.

[lakwinder singh]

Veeru ji

Where is the bias? It exists in your imagination only.You have failed so far to show us the bias.

Quite a few religions do not allow persons from other religions to enter their places of worship.
On the other hand sikh Gurudwaras are open to all. Guru sahib introduced sangat and pangat.
That practice is still continuing.

Few years back,A very senior officer of Himachal Pardesh Govt., a Hindu, made a metalled
road to Gurudwara Baru sahib in a remote area of Himachal.This Gurudwara has a famous boarding
school called akal academy. He narrated that when he passed 10th grade, he was to appear in an examination
in a near by town.He went on foot.When night fell he went to stay at Hindu Temple as he was poor and did not
have money to pay for lodging. The priest did not take him in. He came to know about a Gurudwara in the same
town.He did not know much about sikhism.But he went to Gurudwara to stay for the night.Granthi singh took him
in without any question, gave him warm water to bathe, fed him and gave him a room to stay.While leaving in the morning Granthi singh gave him packed food for his lunch.

After so many years he told that he was in a position to help and he wanted to return that gratitude. From where
sikhs learn this trait of sarbat da bhala? It is from lives of their Gurus and their holy scriptures.

You write against practicing a religion and then you write about saints.We need to keep in mind if there is no
religion, there will be no saints also.You are contradicting yourself. It is a religion that produces saints.

[Nihal Singh Kanakpuria]

VeeruS ,

Nice way to dodge the issue, you tend divert the topic whenever challenged with a bit logic, a very typical trait.

Nihal

[jammasterb]

As far as Khalistan goes, people not having right to vote is more than enough reason for Khalistan not to exist.

VeeruS,

Does this mean that the US also should not exist prior to giving the black man the right to vote?