SIKH GIRLS DESPISE SIKH BOYS

[MereSahiba]

Well the fact of today is that Sikh girls wish to have clean-shaven guys as their husbands, and they themselves are not treading on the right path.. These girls are non-Sikh girls. If you see, a Gursikh girl woulds always prefer a Gursikh boy. So the guys don't have to do anything. It's the girls who need to change their habits, their outlook, respect 'kes' and when they do that, they'd themselves like Gursikh boys. Youngsters are getting 'Patit' at a mind-blowing rate, it seems they have no awareness of their glorious past, and the significance of Sikh values, that's why they don't know the fact that ours is the only actual religion that exists, I mean the way everyone should be, it's taught in only and only Sikhism.. But gloomy is the present situation...

[cirrus]

I have travelled and interacted with a host of people from so many cultures and religions.

I don't have a single example to quote where i found the following:-
- A bengali girl saying she does not like a bengali boy
- a Nepali girl saying saying she does not want to marry a Nepal boy because they are not smart.
- A Malayyalam girl saying that she does not like Malayyali boys.
or
- a muslim lady saying she does not like muslim boys.
- or a Christen girl saying she does not like a Christen guys.
(if someone has a case he/ she can share with others on this forum)
But how come the Malaise is spreading only among the sikh girls.

Born and brought up by sikh parents, what makes them despise sikhi swaroop. I feel it if the duty of parents to tell them the importance of the need of sikhi, what are their duties, what are their responsibilites, what sacrifices the ladies went through in the past in sikh history but not a single sikh lady converted or went out with others because of sheer appearance etc etc. In fact remember those 40 ladies who sent their husbands back to the battlefield and not to show cowardice. THey knew their warrior husbands will not come back. THey died in battle and Guru Gobind Singh ji blessed them. Those 40 MUKTAS are in sikh history and so are those brave 40 ladies.

I appeal to the parents to guide their children well. How can a parent say That " I have walked on this path of Sikhism but you take another path"
I think if parents have done their duty well this trend will reverse.

[himmat_singh]

Ek OnKaar Sat Naam

First, Himmat singh -

- we all know that if you google lots of evidence of domestic voilence accross the world will appear and that has been produced and thrust on the face of some time constraint readers.

But, Where is the evidence that domestic voilence is highest amongst sikhs and female suicide rate is higher amongst sikhs. If there is evidence please share with us or stop stop peddling false accusations - i request Himmat Singh!

Dear Deepharn ji,

Did you also note nobody has asked for evidence to support the following points all made in the opening post:

a) Title: “Sikh Girls despise Sikh boys” – Is it opinion of the poster or is the statement based on repeatable surveys/research ?
b) “The way things are going it would just take few more years for Keshdhari sikhs to disappear” – fact or opinion? Where is the research?
c) “….educated sikh girls don't want to marry sikh boys” – fact or opinion?
d) “I see appearance as primary reason for this” – fact or opinion?
e) “(secondary reason is)quality of education sikh boys are pursuing” – fact or opinion, and what is the quality being referred to ?
f) “This is leading to sikh boys also trimming Kesh.” – fact or opinion?
g) “This also reflects on how poorly the sikh culture/ education is percolating to posterity.” – fact or opinion? What is poor and what is good ? Who is the judge?
h) “If we don't do anything now it won't be long when Keshdhari sikhs would become rare sight.” – fact or opinion ? What action is being contemplated and does is it involve any added pressure towards to that may lead to more violence/abuse if requests are not complied with?

All these are made without supportive evidence.

Himmat singh writes against sikh rehat maryada, many times indirectly and sometimes directly, as clearly in these three posts above,

Deepharn ji, instead of making baseless requests to moderators to ban me, maybe you can quote the exact text from any of those three posts which you suggest are so clearly against Sikh Rehat Maryada.
I apologise in advance for not spotting the same, and ensuring it was not included. I need to try harder.

I sincerely feel that Himmat Singh and people like him who are here to only defame sikhs, write long and incomprehensible posts with twisted motives,

Deepharn ji, if you cannot understand, then that is not something you can damn me for.

It was you who asked me to provide evidence to support my posts, which I have in large part. The replies were bound to be long. What would have satisfied you - no reponse or single liners?

If you care to read the last two posts you will also read the statement at the end of the second post. Direct associations to Sikhs with regards to pressure on women to conform are my opinion - conjecture was the word used. You also appear to have chosen to dismiss the linked reports/articles as they follow searches from the internet. I am sorry but I do not hold extensive libraries. If you don't value UNICEF or UN reports then that is your choice.

Then I have made it clear that Sikhs are indirectly linked to what goes on in Punjab (Indian Punjab), by virtue of the fact that they are the majority population. However this is not guaranteed, and hence the disclaimers in some of the posts.
eg

If it is highest in Punjab, then to me this is empirical evidence of a link to the culture of Punjab, if not to Sikhism

It is very easy to blame women and claim they are more interested in the next celebrity fashion rather than marrying sikhs, which may assist in prolonging the period over which sikh saroop is maintained.

However males are still the playmakers, in Punjabi non-sikh homes and in Punjabi Sikh homes.

Males, in search of fulfilment of materialistic desires, emigrated from Punjab in droves.in the last century, especially from the 1950’s onwards. In later years many emigrated on the basis of political problems with authorities. It was the wives/children, of those that happened to be married, who were left behind, to follow as and when they could. Now unmarried males continue to try to emigrate for purely materialistic reasons. There is nothing spiritual about wanting to live in USA. Canada, Australia, UK etc. It is all down to money.

So I don’t know how people can start to believe Sikh girls despise Sikh boys, or lead to Sikhs saroop. If boys were truly spiritual they would never trim their kesh whatever sikhs girls did, and would not do everything in their power to chase money as if they are going to take it with them after death. They have just as many, if not more, materialistic desires motivating their actions.

At the same time disrespect of the status of women continues. They do not receive equal treatment in Sikh or non_sikh households, but Sikhs do have SGGS to guide them, as do non-keshdhari Sikhs such as myself.

If one wants to deny the power held by males in Punjabi society and also rejects evidence of abuse of women and female children in Punjab, both Sikh and non-Sikh alike, then there is nothing more to be said. IMHO It is time to read more of SGGS ji by such a person, especially sections relating to hypocrisy.

Sat Sri Akal

[gurbharti]

Waheguruji ka khlasa Waheguruji Ki Fateh,

I think we are losing the track and are busy settling personal scores. Let us not play at the hands of our ego. ( Opinion only) The following question can be answered in yes or no then we can proceed. The idea of the forum I feel should be to improve the quality of Gursikh society ( as per opinion of Gursikh society)

1. Is there any substance in my original post ?

2. Sikh swaroop is an inherent part of being a Gursikh ( Apart from other disciplines) ?

3.Are Sikh girls majorly responsible for the situation ?

4. Can we find a pragmatic solution ?

Yes Himmat singh Ji all my posts are my opinion like your posts are your opinion. Only Lord knows the facts.

Guru Fateh

[aman raja]

I have been reading this post over the last week or so and strongly agree with the original poster.

I went through similar feelings when I was looking for a mate for marriage. Just look at the Sikh marriage webssites. Even on the Sikhnet Matrimonial section there are many many listing by girls or their families that clearly states "only seeking clean shaven match."

Sikh girls are not interested in Sardar boys. I think there are many factors to this, many of which have been posted already.

1) many our fathers have set poor examples of how sardars should behave...the fanatics are always hating on everyone...they think only their ways is correct...they claim to be Gursikhs and are the first to loudly say "Bolay So Nihal" yet lack simple good virtues...they fight in guruwaras pulling off each other turbans...how are young Sikh girls suppose to look at that and say "I want to marry a guy that looks like that"?...

2) Many (not all) Gursikhs have this stuck up attitude about them. They think they are better than others. Obviously a turn off for anyone.

3) Many (not all) Sardars/Gursikhs don't take care of themselves. They're fat and un-groomed. How is that a turn-on? We Sardars must try to keep fit and strong. Groom your beards. Tie your turban neatly. Where nice clothes. We really need to look the part too!

4) The rules of conduct are much more lax for Sikh girls. This has been discussed prior

5) No Thank you to Osama bin Laden! He has single handedly caused more strife to Sardars than anyone. Why would a girl want to marry a guy that "looks like a terrorist". Obviously, I am being cynical but there is some truth to this also.

I'm not sure about the solution. i don't think there is much we can do.

Mughals tried to kill us physically but weren't successful. Today, the turban is being killed because of style, ease, terrorism to name a few. The forces against our religon and all religons are very strong.

The other day, I was tying my turban with my 4month old son staring at me. I thought to myself, "I will do whatever I can to encourage him to be a Sardar when he grows up but will I be able to hold back all the anti-turban forces in the world.

[deepharn]

This is respnse to Gurbharti Ji.


1. Is there any substance in my original post ? - The original post - "The way things are going it would just take few more years for Keshdhari sikhs to disappear. Its such a pity that educated sikh girls don't want to marry sikh boys. I see appearance as primary reason for this followed by quality of education sikh boys are pursuing. This is leading to sikh boys also trimming Kesh.
This also reflects on how poorly the sikh culture/ education is percolating to posterity.
If we don't do anything now it won't be long when Keshdhari sikhs would become rare sight.
May Guru help us."


Yes, in general there is substance in your query but I dont think that keshadhari sikhs will disappear - reason - sonner or later, living a natural way of life is preferred over artificial way of life. Look, many people, as they age, begin to practise sikh rehat maryada, including unshorn hair. Also, people in the western culture, having experimented with everything else, have finally taken refuge in natural living, including unshorn hair.

Yes, some sikh girls dont want to marry sikh boys. Of these some, in some cases, parents prevail while in others they cannot. in any case, there are many reasons why sikh girls dont marry sikh boys - i have already mentioned a few earlier as per my perception and some that you mention, i agree. However, i have yet to come accross a willing sikh who could not get married, and I have come accross many sikh boys who were sought desperately by many non-sikh girls for marriage alliance.

Yes, logically, when one partner is a non-sikh, chances are that children will have non-sikh appearance. Unfortunately, even now, generally, sikh females hardly look sikhs from appearance when seen in public places. For some of such sikh females, it would be very difficult to raise sikh looking kids.

2. Sikh swaroop is an inherent part of being a Gursikh ( Apart from other disciplines) ?
Understanding Gurbani which says to live naturally and conduct yourself in the will of God (Japji - Hukam Rajai chalna) and pursuing, life of sikh gurus, of panj pyaras, of historical sikhs (Bhai Taru Singh), rehat maryadas, enligthened sikhs of recent past (Bhai Veer singh, Randhir Singh, Attar Singh, Yogi Harbhajan), it is clear that sikhi swarop is an integral part of a Gursikh. The understanding of Gurbani and lives of practiioners of Gurbani provides evidence supporting Gursikhi swarop.

3.Are Sikh girls majorly responsible for the situation ?
In my opinion - when i look at history - bebe nanki recognizes her brother, role of Mata Khivi, bibi Bhani, Mata Ganga, Bibi Kaulan, Mata Gujari, Mata Sahib Devan, Mai Bhago, - contributions are intense. My discourses with many spiritualists result in the following conclusion that females are closer to God, because as God creates, a female nourishes a child in her body and even when outside - she is closer to God and what she imparts to the child none else can - actually she creates the child.

Ancient Wisdom in India says - a woman should give birth to Bhagat, Soorma or King or else remain barren - implying she has the power to create such persons. Gurbani says - Jin har hirday naam na basio tin mat kijhe har bnaja - SGGS JI- (page I am forgetting, but this is a standard line of SGGS Ji and comes a sHukam many times, implying it is in the central part of SGGS Ji.)

Accorinding to my understanding, sikh females have an important role to play here - If a mother, sister, wife, grand mother decides, no child can go astray - this is my firm opinion based on historical facts - connected with most of the women named above.

4. Can we find a pragmatic solution ?
Yes, it is easy. According to me, a women is a pivot. if she is stable the family is stable. In western world, what we are seeing is a catastrophe-numerous single teengae mothers, and single mothers - apart from other reasons - psychatric problems have incraeased multifold in all western civilisations because of broken homes, men and women alike are suffering, but when seen closely, women are suffering much more - happiness is an illusion in many a western individuals - depression is a wide spread phenomenon.
Few illustrations to help us find a solution -
1.Just think how come these american sikh woman dress and conduct themselves so gracefully, following the dress code prescribed by the Gurus. We can get a clue from them.
2. What does both males and females want in a relationship/marriage - loyalty and stability. If both partners are wedded to Guru and are truthful to their Guru practically and spiritually, bringing up sikh children will be easy. Honestly, in my intense interaction with all types of sikh males, in India and abroad, respcet for a practising sikh female is very high. Even a non-practising sikh male is aware and expresses guilt (generally) but wishes and is willing to support that his wife and children were practising sikhs. man non-practising sikhs have proudly told me, we are non-practising because of our compulsion, but my wife and children are practising.
3. Instill in our young marriageable kids, especially females, that posterity depends on them - they have a duty to their heritage.
4. In sikh Gurudwaras correctly depict the role and encourge truthfully, the role of sikh woman in history - Beautiful example of mata Gujri and two little sahibzadas - let our mothers and grandmothers be proud of their heritage and role.

Thanks for asking such a set of lovely questions

[mohitmalihi]

Guys, I want to put in my ten cents. I'm a Sikh guy, I had a turban throughout high school. Then due to illness, my hair fell out. Recently, I've decided to let it grow, to let my beard grow as well. I plan to wear a turban again.

BUT I was lost. I would hear the great stories of the Guru-jis, then watch as my uncles treated their wives as nothing more than dogs. I would watch as my mother was insulted and no one did anything because tradition and culture forbid it. I watched one of my female cousins be married to a man with a beard, who wears a turban, understands Gurbani, Punjabi, Hindi, is very educated. He is an abuser.

Sikhi, what does it mean? What does Confucianism mean? Christianity? and all the other faiths and religions?

They mean opening up your heart to the universe, to not judge, to not blame others for we are all part of the Supreme. So much of the conversation on this thread is about non-true Sikhs.
Numbers say there are 2 billion Christians, 1.3 billion Muslims, 25 million Sikhs etc. in this world. I believe the true numbers are a few dozen million Christians, a few dozen million Muslims, maybe a few million Sikhs etc. in this world.

Why are my numbers so off?
One cannot say they are a part of a philosophy, a religion, a belief system, unless they truly believe in it.

Wearing a turban, having a beard, being able to read Gurbani, knowing Punjabi, etc. is not going to make you a Sikh. It requires something far more, your life, all of your lives into infinity, and still more. How many are willing to go for that?

Our ancestors, not just the Sikhs, but all of the good people throughout history fought and died in the hundreds of millions to give us a better life. What are we complaining about? We should be prepared to fight, do not let tradition/culture keep you down.

That the Sikh Path will go extinct? How about when the Muslims almost wiped our faith out centuries ago? There were not that many of us then.

Look, the true people of any faith, they will carry the struggle on into eternity. Confucius once said that no one wanted to listen to him, that he had found a path to a better life.

Look today, there are millions of Confucinists. The Sikh Path, keep it alive!

Yes, many in our previous generation were indoctrined with the ideology that Punjabi tradition/culture trumps Sikhi, but that will never be true. Rise and fight, the Guru-jis did not just fight against external threats, they struggled within too, they must have to become what they did: true beings.

Female infantcide is a problem, so is abuse of Sikh women, and the blame? Who cares?! Just go out and live the right life, help others, sacrifice of yourself, crush Maya, work for your community, let the world know we are Sikhs, that we are here to stay. Treat all women as princesses.

Am I being too preachy? Well guess what everyone, the path to Sikhi, all of the many paths to the Supreme, the Beyond are extremely hard and require much sacrifice. No one is born a Sikh, it is a lifelong journey to get there.

And if someone does not wear a turban or does not have a beard? Well, they might be farther along the path than one who is wearing a turban and has the external appearance of a Sikh. I'm not advocating anything, just that sometimes, you've got to go to war with your own traditions/culture if you truly profess to love God.

[kjsinghhyd]

This kind of stuff can never be studied or reported or done like a thesis. It so much differs from person to person.

Now there are 2 things which can outcome from posting in this forum:

1. Create a universal solution for the 'problem'
(.. in that case, all the best! hehehe)

2. Look for answers and calm the mind
(.. where better to look than Guru for that!)

[AS-Khalsa]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

A lot of people on this thread are talking about how Sikh girls were raised and brought up witht the values of Sikhism and have gone on to turn their backs on them. I don't really think thats the case and I'm not entirely sure that all Sikh girls are or have been brought up with Sikh values. None of my aunts were brought up with Sikh values, 4 of them have married outside the faith because they 'dont like Sikh guys with their turbans and beards'. Because the parent generation have no faith, their children will inevitably follow in their footsteps.

I am a British Sikh, my family are from the Punjab, and my grandparents first came over to this country in the 1960s. My Grandfather arrived at the airport with a turban and a beard, thinking that he would be accepted here. But a few months later, when he was told he wouldn't be able to get a job unless he cut his Kes, he succumbed to weakness and did so. All his brothers came over here as well, and they too cut their hair. I think because the older generation were not accepted due to their kes, and they know the challenge which comes with maintaining it, they try to discourage youngsters from becoming good Gursikhs. That was certainly the case with my grandparents. When I told them a few years back that I wanted to grow my hair they came out with all sorts of horrible statements, like nobody will give you a job and no girl will want to marry you and what is the need for a Sikh to grow his hair. If every Sikh thought like that, then the religion would cease to exist. But I did grow my hair, because unlike my grandparents, my faith was stronger than my fear of persecution.

As for whether the Sikh Bana is important, yes it is. People always say that you don't need to grow hair to be a good Sikh, but just imagine what Sikhi would be like if there were no Amritdharis or Keshdaris. Besides, Sehajdharis are hardly the backbone of Sikhi.

I also think that it has a lot to do with the time in which we live. I in the modern era, when celebrity culture is held in such high esteem and when everybody idolises the wrong people, is responsible for girls looking for more feminine, romantic looking men. This filth has also infiltrated the 'Sikh' community, and now our Sikh girls instead of looking towards Mai Bhago, try to be like Paris Hilton, promiscuous, lacking morality, with 'good-looking' boyfriends. And in this modern era, there seems to be a lot of media attention on Islamic radicals such as Osama Bin Laden. Aman raja ji is right in saying Sikh girls avoid marrying Keshdari Sikhs, because most of the population in Western countries don't know what a Sikh is and confuse us for Islamic terrorists.

But despite this, it is a bit of a sweeping statement to say that Sikh girls despise Sikh boys. Thats certainly not the case with Sikh groups such as the 3HO and AKJ, where the women are also very devout practicing Sikhs. I know certainly in the Jatha's case, that women will only marry practicing Sikh men.

This topic is discussed in depth in Dr I.J Singh's book, 'Being and Becoming Sikh'. Its a good read.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

[keshgarh]

I must convey my regards and thanks to AS ji for so lucidly conveying his own example.

There are people who abhor sikh appearance and say they are the most devout sikhs and claim that they understand the sikhi tenants to every minute detail. They will give you answer to everything and in minutes prove that how very unimportant is the need of kesh.

I feel they are not telling us but telling the Guru. Hence I have stopped my attempts to give them any answers.

Let me try and explain who is a sehajdhari sikh- HE is the one who is trying to understand and come into the fold of sikhi. In our local gurudwaras I have seen many doing dedicated sewa and slowly becomes turbaned sikhs.
A person who being a sikh has gone away from sikh faith willfully cannot be now called a sehajdhari sikh.

I also feel one of the reasons for sikh girls despise sikh boys could be- sociological. Sikh boys have to learn to be more fit, smart and intelligent and attractive. So that they are able to draw attention of Sikh girls.