Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Discussions on various aspects of Sikhi

Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Jas004 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:35 pm

I grew up in the Sikh religion but recently I am finding that the so called "Sikhs" are really not the kind of people I would want to associate with. I never used to pay much attention each time I heard Jatts calling themselves superior in all the songs and movies. But on my recent trip to India, I found out that this is how the "Sikh" people actually think. I was asked several times If I was a Jatt or not! Like, I don't even know what that means. Isn't caste system against Sikhism? So why does every so called Sikh I run into seem to believe in it while pretending to be a Sikh?
Jas004
New User
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:39 pm

Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Bundha » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:26 pm

Hi Jas,

You grew up in a Sikh household but did you get coloured in Sikhi?

Your Sikhi is your personal relationship with your Guru, look at what your Guru says, follow what your Guru says , be the best Sikh you can be.

Yes there is a big culture that is into their Jaat/Paat but let that be their culture don’t make it be yours. These people will go in the jaat circle, round and round, all their lives and ultimately they will leave this world with nothing. Don’t be one of those people. Slowly this is changing but there is a core set of people who mix Punjabi culture and Sikhi and they cannot see one from the other, they are too wrapped in their own superiority and this will be their downfall.

Learn about your Guru and follow His path. He wants you to see all people as one, He wants you to see Him in all people. He wants you to see all people on one level, no caste, no prejudice , no hate , see Him in all. This is what your Guru wants of you, so do it. It matters not what other people are doing they will sink do not sink with them. Have faith in your Guru.
Guru Nanak Dev Ji Guru Gobind Singh Ji Guru Granth Sahib Ji Dasam Granth Sahib Ji.
Bundha
Power User
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:04 am
Location: UK

Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Romesh Kumar » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:29 pm

Bundha Ji,
With all due respect as usual and always, kindly do not join the group what I can call a 'cover up group'.
There is no point deviating from the issue and point of initial poster by confusing it with Sikhi, Punjabi culture and so called color of Sikhi !
What is a Sikh and Sikhi which can not come out of most condemn-able clutches of social evil like casteism ?

Please accept the truth and respond to initial poster accordingly.
User avatar
Romesh Kumar
Power User
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:04 am
Location: Nigeria

Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Jas004 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:42 am

Well, I'll be honest, recently I am seeking a partner for marriage and I live in Canada. I am not from a Jatt background or caste and this has been a big problem! I never thought about caste in my life but I am a Kamboj. So far, EVERY Sikh family I have talked to has asked me questions like "What's your caste", "What are you?". One family even said "Kamobj? What are those? Are you a Chura?". It is really hurtful. If I was a outsider I would think that caste system and astrology are major foundations of Sikhism.

I always used to be a strong believer in Guru Granth Sahib Ji but recently I am questioning the effectiveness of Sikh teachings. I do not see such a divide even in Hinduism.
Jas004
New User
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:39 pm

Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Romesh Kumar » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:50 am

Jas004 wrote:Well, I'll be honest, recently I am seeking a partner for marriage and I live in Canada. I am not from a Jatt background or caste and this has been a big problem! I never thought about caste in my life but I am a Kamboj. So far, EVERY Sikh family I have talked to has asked me questions like "What's your caste", "What are you?". One family even said "Kamobj? What are those? Are you a Chura?". It is really hurtful. If I was a outsider I would think that caste system and astrology are major foundations of Sikhism.

I always used to be a strong believer in Guru Granth Sahib Ji but recently I am questioning the effectiveness of Sikh teachings. I do not see such a divide even in Hinduism.


That is why I requested Bundha Ji to come clear on the topic.
I think most of the Sikhs do not know that Shahid Udham Singh was also from Kamboj family.
User avatar
Romesh Kumar
Power User
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:04 am
Location: Nigeria

Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Bundha » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:22 pm

So, when everything was going okay and things were hunky dory we are strong believers in our Guru, once things get a little tough we start questioning the effectiveness of Sikh teachings.

I would say there is nothing wrong in Sikh teachings but when things go wrong in our lives we blame others. We were never strong in our faith in the first place.

Its like when people go to the Gurdwara week in week out. Yes they go but they do not take anything from the Guru, in short they pay lip service. When things go wrong in life, and invariably they do,Then they say “I go to the Gurdwara, I believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, why is this happening to me?” What they do not realise is that they are the cause of their own suffering, it is not the fault of the Guru, Of all the years they went to the Gurdwara they never tried to follow the Gurus path. Rise above these people regard yourself as the Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh Ji who made panj piyaray from five different castes who all took amrit from the same bowl.

Yes, there is caste within the Sikh community but it is a product of the Punjabi culture rather than Sikh teachings, time and again the Gurus condemn the caste system. You are finding difficulty in finding a partner but that is not the fault of your Guru or your faith. You cannot abandon your Guru because of the despicable actions of some Sikhs, else you have lost everything in your life.

I wouldn’t be so sure about the grass being greener on the other side. The caste system is iron clad in Hinduism. Just last week a group of low caste men were set upon by Brahmins just because they came to watch a public gathering by local ladies. They also objected that these men had moustache’s and deemed that those of lower caste cannot have them and beat the men badly. Young women are molested and abused due to their lower caste, this happens now in the 21st century, so things are not rosy over there.

Take the Mussllmans, they are hacking each other to death by any means possible because of their differing factions. The Catholic’s and protestants have nothing to do with each other, look at Northern Ireland.

Guru Ji has blessed you with a human life, then he has blessed you with giving you birth in a Sikh family, how lucky are you? Yet I sense you have already made up your mind, but it is your lose.
Guru Nanak Dev Ji Guru Gobind Singh Ji Guru Granth Sahib Ji Dasam Granth Sahib Ji.
Bundha
Power User
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:04 am
Location: UK

Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Jas004 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:36 pm

Hello, to me it personally does not matter if Shaheed Udham Singh was Kamboj or Jat or Khatri etc. I should be judged based on my accomplishments and not on the accomplishments of other people in my caste.

Recently, I have realized that caste system is actually a very strong foundation of Sikh cult. Even the 10 gurus were all Khatris and decided to keep the Guruship in their own caste but told everyone else that caste is not important! This is complete hypocrisy just like the followers of these Gurus. I will be leaving Sikhism and becoming an atheist but I know that other Sikhs will still keep asking me about my caste.
Jas004
New User
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:39 pm

Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Romesh Kumar » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:23 pm

Bundha wrote:So, when everything was going okay and things were hunky dory we are strong believers in our Guru, once things get a little tough we start questioning the effectiveness of Sikh teachings.

I would say there is nothing wrong in Sikh teachings but when things go wrong in our lives we blame others. We were never strong in our faith in the first place.

Its like when people go to the Gurdwara week in week out. Yes they go but they do not take anything from the Guru, in short they pay lip service. When things go wrong in life, and invariably they do,Then they say “I go to the Gurdwara, I believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, why is this happening to me?” What they do not realise is that they are the cause of their own suffering, it is not the fault of the Guru, Of all the years they went to the Gurdwara they never tried to follow the Gurus path. Rise above these people regard yourself as the Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh Ji who made panj piyaray from five different castes who all took amrit from the same bowl.

Yes, there is caste within the Sikh community but it is a product of the Punjabi culture rather than Sikh teachings, time and again the Gurus condemn the caste system. You are finding difficulty in finding a partner but that is not the fault of your Guru or your faith. You cannot abandon your Guru because of the despicable actions of some Sikhs, else you have lost everything in your life.

I wouldn’t be so sure about the grass being greener on the other side. The caste system is iron clad in Hinduism. Just last week a group of low caste men were set upon by Brahmins just because they came to watch a public gathering by local ladies. They also objected that these men had moustache’s and deemed that those of lower caste cannot have them and beat the men badly. Young women are molested and abused due to their lower caste, this happens now in the 21st century, so things are not rosy over there.

Take the Mussllmans, they are hacking each other to death by any means possible because of their differing factions. The Catholic’s and protestants have nothing to do with each other, look at Northern Ireland.

Guru Ji has blessed you with a human life, then he has blessed you with giving you birth in a Sikh family, how lucky are you? Yet I sense you have already made up your mind, but it is your lose.


Only conclusion I can draw from your post is that Sikh or Sikhism (in practice) has become a socio-politico-legal identity only. Basic concept and teachings have no place in hearts and minds of the people.
Thanks.
User avatar
Romesh Kumar
Power User
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:04 am
Location: Nigeria

Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Bundha » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:48 pm

So you are leaving Sikhism, when exactly were you a Sikh ? Just lip service my friend.
Guru Nanak Dev Ji Guru Gobind Singh Ji Guru Granth Sahib Ji Dasam Granth Sahib Ji.
Bundha
Power User
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:04 am
Location: UK

Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Romesh Kumar » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:41 pm

Jas004 wrote:Hello, to me it personally does not matter if Shaheed Udham Singh was Kamboj or Jat or Khatri etc. I should be judged based on my accomplishments and not on the accomplishments of other people in my caste.

Recently, I have realized that caste system is actually a very strong foundation of Sikh cult. Even the 10 gurus were all Khatris and decided to keep the Guruship in their own caste but told everyone else that caste is not important! This is complete hypocrisy just like the followers of these Gurus. I will be leaving Sikhism and becoming an atheist but I know that other Sikhs will still keep asking me about my caste.


Other side of the coin.
Caste like religion is a social class.
Apart from castes, human race is classified in each and everything.
There is absolutely nothing living or non-living thing in the universe which is not classified.
Caste in India denoted occupation in the beginning which later became a class and also identity of family lineage.
Actually it is untouchability or caste based discrimination which made it a social evil in India which is gradually getting eradicated.
There are strict laws against caste based discrimination in India.
User avatar
Romesh Kumar
Power User
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:04 am
Location: Nigeria

Next

Return to Sikhi Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests