Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Discussions on various aspects of Sikhi

Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby JasbeerSingh » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:16 am

Bundha wrote:So you are leaving Sikhism, when exactly were you a Sikh ? Just lip service my friend.


It is a shame that when a person is seriously baffled about the double standards
of his own community nobody is out there to give him a sound advise and instead
will make him stand in the dock questioning his own beliefs and defication to the Guru.
This is how we will loose our generations
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Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby JasbeerSingh » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:49 am

Jas004 wrote:I grew up in the Sikh religion but recently I am finding that the so called "Sikhs" are really not the kind of people I would want to associate with. I never used to pay much attention each time I heard Jatts calling themselves superior in all the songs and movies. But on my recent trip to India, I found out that this is how the "Sikh" people actually think. I was asked several times If I was a Jatt or not! Like, I don't even know what that means. Isn't caste system against Sikhism? So why does every so called Sikh I run into seem to believe in it while pretending to be a Sikh?


Dear Jas don’t think that you are the only one to find yourself in such deplorable condition when confronted with facts of real life. Even my eyes got opened to this reality at the time of my rishta when I found people of my own communinty (keeping unshorn hairs, wearing turban, looking like devoted sikhs) continously enquiring about my background and ‘caste’. Such things are unpardonable and highly condemnable beyond any means because of the very simple fact that Casteism of any kind, in any form is simply prohibited in Sikhism with no room of it’s practice of any sort. But amusingly you will find funny ways that people have developed to keep it alive, blame it on human weakness or dirty divisive politics that has always been used to keep people divided on whichever grounds that the elite rulers can find to keep their rule safe, then over a period of time this thing gets deeply embedded in the psychology of the community and in natural course becomes a part of life which then passes on from generation to generation. In this case caste practice in it’s own unique form (invented by some sikhs) has become a part of Sikh life while ideally it should never have been the case.

So don’t think bad about Sikhi or our gurus because of the practice that has grown and taken it’s root because of human weakness. All I can suggest you or can advise you as your brother is use this difficult situation of yours to learn and try to make people around you aware of this meance that still exists, do as much as you can to spread this awareness and take people out of this worn out mentality, as we both have been at the recieving end of this practice despite being a Sikh so we can understand the pain that this situation gives.

As far as your search for your partner is concerned don’t get worried , leave everything to waheguru and pray to him in all your earnestness and continue your practice of meditating on naam. But do take this period as a lesson of your life and instead of leaving sikhi try to study more about Sikhi who knows this may open new areas of knowledge for you. As a fellow sikh I will be disappointed if you leave Sikhi my brother, yet in the end it will be your choice and decision.
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Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Romesh Kumar » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:42 am

Jas004 wrote:Hello, to me it personally does not matter if Shaheed Udham Singh was Kamboj or Jat or Khatri etc. I should be judged based on my accomplishments and not on the accomplishments of other people in my caste.

Recently, I have realized that caste system is actually a very strong foundation of Sikh cult. Even the 10 gurus were all Khatris and decided to keep the Guruship in their own caste but told everyone else that caste is not important! This is complete hypocrisy just like the followers of these Gurus. I will be leaving Sikhism and becoming an atheist but I know that other Sikhs will still keep asking me about my caste.


And being atheist is also and again a social class which is looked down at by religious class of all religions.
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Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby suji singh » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:48 am

It is hard to sweep under the rug, Sikhs practice caste system. Unfortunately, caste system is more pervasive among Sikhs living abroad. It gets worse, they won't admit it! Most Jatts won't approve the marriage of their sons or daughters to matches from groups they consider inferior. There is a clear hierarchy among various groups among Sikhs.

I am not venting, no reason. I was born in a privileged Sikh group. I have first hand experience, my father was an Amritdhari Sikh. Plenty on the positive side of the ledger that should be mentioned. In general, Sikhs are very generous. They contribute to hospitals and educational educations individually or using funds raised from Gurudwaras. No end to the generosity!

By not being inclusive, they lost what they deemed to be lower classes (Majbhis, Chamars, ...). Major loss! This is/was contrary to Guru Nanak's fundamental principles.
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Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Jas004 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:05 am

So we are all in agreement that Sikhism is an ineffective religion and Sikhs are generally hypocrite as they strongly believe in the caste system? So what would be the solution for is lower castes then? What should we do?
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Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Romesh Kumar » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:02 am

Jas004 wrote:So we are all in agreement that Sikhism is an ineffective religion and Sikhs are generally hypocrite as they strongly believe in the caste system? So what would be the solution for is lower castes then? What should we do?


Main reason behind continuation of caste system and caste based discrimination in Sikh community is that upper castes in general and Jatt caste in particular remained in control of SGPC and Sikh politics therefrom.
75% of members of Sikh clergy (SGPC) need to be from so called lower castes or non-Jatt castes to say.
President of SGPC needs to be from so called lower castes.
SGPC should encourage/reward/financially support inter-caste marriages.
Thanks.
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Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Jas004 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:39 am

Yes, I agree but who knows if this will ever happen and it might not even happen within my lifetime. My real problem with Sikhs is their hypocrisy and not admitting that they believe in the caste system. I was talking to a Jatt girl recently and she told me I'm exaggerating and no one ever asked her about caste! Well, obviously no one will ask you your caste if you use your popular surname like Gill or Grewal as part of your legal name! Try using just Singh or Kaur and then you'll see..

I know a family of Ravidassia here in Canada who were unable to get their daughter married. So the entire family changed their legal name to Rai. Then they were able to find a Jat boy but eventually they found out but but this time it was too late.

So is this what Sikhs have to do today? Change their last name to a Jat surname so they can have good status in community? Seems like when it comes to following the caste system Sikhs have outdone every other religion today..
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Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby gurmail » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:22 pm

A different perspective. Strictly speaking, Jatt is not a caste. It is a tribe, outside the caste system. More of an out caste. Our Gurus abolished the caste system and gave Jatts an equal status. Jatts claimed equality by shouting superiority in defiance. That is, no way am I your inferior, I fact I am better than all of you put together. That's my take on this after observing behaviour. It is a state of mind - perhaps something to do with the initial stages of being a Sikh? A class 10 student rather than a graduate.

Perhaps, people should adopt this attitude. No way am I inferior. Guru has made me better.
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Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Jas004 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:17 pm

gurmail wrote:A different perspective. Strictly speaking, Jatt is not a caste. It is a tribe, outside the caste system. More of an out caste. Our Gurus abolished the caste system and gave Jatts an equal status. Jatts claimed equality by shouting superiority in defiance. That is, no way am I your inferior, I fact I am better than all of you put together. That's my take on this after observing behaviour. It is a state of mind - perhaps something to do with the initial stages of being a Sikh? A class 10 student rather than a graduate.

Perhaps, people should adopt this attitude. No way am I inferior. Guru has made me better.


Yup, I'm not sure If you read all the posts but the biggest problem with Sikhs is that they don't admit that they strictly follow the case system. Instead of calling it caste, they call it culture, community, tribe, or something similar. The hypocricy is unreal. How would you like If I asked you what your caste is and based on that decided whether you will get a job? Every Sikh so far has asked me what my caste is. When Jats find out that I'm from a lower caste they immediately break all contact with me and my family. Great people, aren't they? I guess these are the kind of people Sikhs are today..
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Re: Caste System: Are Sikhs hypocrite?

Postby Romesh Kumar » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:11 am

Jas004 wrote:
gurmail wrote:A different perspective. Strictly speaking, Jatt is not a caste. It is a tribe, outside the caste system. More of an out caste. Our Gurus abolished the caste system and gave Jatts an equal status. Jatts claimed equality by shouting superiority in defiance. That is, no way am I your inferior, I fact I am better than all of you put together. That's my take on this after observing behaviour. It is a state of mind - perhaps something to do with the initial stages of being a Sikh? A class 10 student rather than a graduate.

Perhaps, people should adopt this attitude. No way am I inferior. Guru has made me better.


Yup, I'm not sure If you read all the posts but the biggest problem with Sikhs is that they don't admit that they strictly follow the case system. Instead of calling it caste, they call it culture, community, tribe, or something similar. The hypocricy is unreal. How would you like If I asked you what your caste is and based on that decided whether you will get a job? Every Sikh so far has asked me what my caste is. When Jats find out that I'm from a lower caste they immediately break all contact with me and my family. Great people, aren't they? I guess these are the kind of people Sikhs are today..


I am just reposting my previous post please.
-
Other side of the coin.
Caste like religion is a social class.
Apart from castes, human race is classified in each and everything.
There is absolutely nothing living or non-living thing in the universe which is not classified.
Caste in India denoted occupation in the beginning which later became a class and also identity of family lineage.
Actually it is untouchability or caste based discrimination which made it a social evil in India which is gradually getting eradicated.
There are strict laws against caste based discrimination in India.
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