Why 'Dasam Granth' validity debate at all

[JasbeerSingh]

I like to ask sangat ji's views about Dasam granth. A bani of Dashmesh Pitaa Shri Guru Gobind Singhji is unnecessarily doubted by a group of Sikhs who are very vocal in their protest against it claiming that it is forged and it is a bani written with deliberate intention to make Sikhs more like Hindu, Yes I agree to this other point that it cannot be equated with Guru Granth Sahib, SGGS will forever be our Guru.. Also there is a huge controversy relating to Charitropakhyan which are brief stories of Characters of Women that shows them of low character.. but I have my own reasons to believe that it is a genuine bani , after reading Dasam Granth myself..

First, It never goes against basic teachings of Guru Granth Sahib. It tells us like our Guru Maharaj to worship one omnipresent god and just treat the devi-devtaas as mere creations of Almighty Supreme Akaal Purakh, it never tells us to worship any deity

Second, it has such a powerful and a gripping poetic style that it makes a beautiful rhythm when you read it loudly. Such a profound beautiful poetry cannot be written by any normal poet

Third, Dasvein Paatshaah on many instances have addressed Avatars as 'Keet' (insect) in front of Almighty God including himself.. He even criticizes many Avatars in his bachitar Natak bani for going astray (Although I believe that it was a satire or sarcasm on the community following those avatars for example like kanphata of Gorakhs or community of ramanand.. Needles to say Ramanand's banis are included in Guru Granth Sahibji Maharaj, I would like to know more from Sangatji in this regard). But, will any pundit will be so open in their criticism of the Avatars or Gurus, I don't think so

Fourth, the lines of Chandi di vaar are used at the beginning of Ardas which we do everyday, starting with 'Vaar Shri Bhagauti ji ki" And it is believed that succhi Ardas never fails, now I wonder had this been a fake bani would ardas of so many Singhs/kaurs of past, present & future would have been successful? Isn't this worst kind of attack by us sikhs on our own culture abusing our own roots.

Fifth, Why can't the stories of Charitropakhyan be just treated as mere stories instead of Guruji's statement on entire Womenfolks and in any case we are not expected to do the paath of charitropakhyan or chaubis Avatar or zafarnama, our elders/forefathers have done the best job by making a Nitnem Gutka, including best banis from Dasam Granth.. So if we want we can choose not to read it ever with our choice, but that never means we malign entire collection of Dasam pita's banis

These are just some of the points, I want sangat to please correct me if I am wrong in my view point.. I feel sad looking at the delusions among our Sikhs that how such confusions are keeping our people away from the gem of Sikh literature and I personally feel this is the reason for our downfall as a community...
Bhool Chuk Maaf

[Gaganjeet]

I was told that during sarsa vichora most of the literature was lost. The 52 kavis of Guru Gobind singh ji who were not all enlightened mixed their kavitas into the dasam granth during that period. I completely believe this as I came across dasam granth baani where guru sahib is saying, I am the slayer of idol worshippers, I will smash the idols, etc. .
ਮਨਮ ਕ੝ਸ਼ਤਨਮ ਕੋਹੀਯਾਂ ਬ੝ਤ ਪਰਸਤ ॥
ਕਿ ਓ ਬ੝ਤ ਪਰਸਤੰਦ੝ ਮਨ ਬ੝ਤ ਸ਼ਿਕਸਤ ॥95॥
I have killed the hill Rajas (kings) who were bent on mischief. They were stone idol worshippers, I am the breaker of idols and I worship the one Lord.
On one side, Guru Tag bahadur sahib fought for the rights of hindus worshipping their idols, wearing janeu, his son cannot be an idol breaker. this seems to be a work of some unenlightened person.

Moderator Note: Please avoid discussing the writings that are not easily understood. Here Guru Gobind Singh appears to be describing how Aurangzeb views himself.

[JasbeerSingh]

I was told that during sarsa vichora most of the literature was lost. The 52 kavis of Guru Gobind singh ji who were not all enlightened mixed their kavitas into the dasam granth during that period. I completely believe this as I came across dasam granth baani where guru sahib is saying, I am the slayer of idol worshippers, I will smash the idols, etc. .
ਮਨਮ ਕ੝ਸ਼ਤਨਮ ਕੋਹੀਯਾਂ ਬ੝ਤ ਪਰਸਤ ॥
ਕਿ ਓ ਬ੝ਤ ਪਰਸਤੰਦ੝ ਮਨ ਬ੝ਤ ਸ਼ਿਕਸਤ ॥95॥
I have killed the hill Rajas (kings) who were bent on mischief. They were stone idol worshippers, I am the breaker of idols and I worship the one Lord.
On one side, Guru Tag bahadur sahib fought for the rights of hindus worshipping their idols, wearing janeu, his son cannot be an idol breaker. this seems to be a work of some unenlightened person.

Moderator Note: Please avoid discussing the writings that are not easily understood. Here Guru Gobind Singh appears to be describing how Aurangzeb views himself.

Bro I feel that at least Jaap Sahib, Akal Ustat, Chaubis Avtar, 33 savaiye, shahbad, gyan prabodh, Chandi di Vaar are original Baanis of Guru Gobind Singhji Himself because when I read it and recite it , it creates amazing rythym and you can feel the vibration as it being words of an awakened soul, like you feel while we recite Japji, Anand Sahib. i agree their are contradictions but that you will also find in Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj.. For example the slok saying "hindu Andha, turku kanaa" without understanding the context behind it anyone may presume that it's promoting hate, hence that is the case with some contradictions in Dasam Granth. Imagine in Akal ustat Guru Gobind Singhji writes "alah abhekh soi, quran au puran ohi ek hi swarup sabh ek hi banau hai" (Allah and Abeikh (god's name by advaitins) is the same, Quran and Puraan is the same, they all have been created from same source), problem is people don't read entire bani and just read and listen to the stuff by Dasam granth critics and jump in the fray.

[Gaganjeet]

I never said that the entire baani of dasam granth is adulterated. Every sikh does path of 2 baanis of Guru Gobind sing ji daily as part of nitneem. Guru ji himself rewrote the entire Guru granth sahib and gave gaddi to it. But did not give to Dasam granth. 90% of literature was lost to sarsa. Had that been available our history would have been different. Why guru sahib did not give Dasam granth the same status as Guru Granth. I feel its a personal choice at the moment. if one gets inspired and enjoys bliss by reading dasam granth, he/she should read it. Because of not having the same level of understanding, there will always be dirty debates among Sikhs. Like they fight for MOOL MANTRA. One Gyani even made changes to Guru Granth saying that sometimes a shabad starts with mangalacharan from ek onkaar - Gurprashad, in other cases its only ekonkar satgurprashad. Most of the scholars and gyanis said its creating confusion as to what is right and printed 200 copies of Guru Granth with changes to Mangalacharan. There were some enlightened souls who politely intervened and convinced them no to make changes. But still today there is dirty fight and debate among missionary college people, damdami taksaal people and other gyanis.
So the thing is a person should look for his/her own spiritual progress as Guru sahib said - JAPOH TA EKO NAAMA, AWAR NIRAFAL KAAMA. When one becomes capable of leading, Guru sahib himself assigns him/her responsibilities. the way he did to Bhai Manjh, Bhai Kanhaiya.
I am not promoting some personalities here but just sharing a incident How Guru Sahib assigns responsibilities. Baba Attar singh (Mastuana sahib) was absorbed in nitneem at hajur sahib. He got so absorbed that he used to take a sip of water from Godavari and stayed there absorbed in meditation. There was the head granthi, Bhai Nanu singh, who saw Guru Gobind singh in dream. Guru sahib said to make food and take for his sikh near the Godavari. He went and walked for about few miles but could not sel Babaji and returned. Again Guru sahib said in his dream- why you did not give food to my beloved. Bhai nanu sing said that he could not find babaji. Guru sahib said to go little further. He eventually found babaji standing in Godavari and served food. later in the week, babaji had lot of vairagh at which he heard a voice - why such vairagh, what do you want. Babji replied - your darshan. He was asked to do keshi snan and visit Nagina Ghat at 12. There he saw gur sahib will complete regalia and was asked to go back to Punjab and Bring people back to the fold for Sikhi by organising AMRIT SANCHAAR. If you visit Hajur sahib, there is a Gurudwara built at the place where babji were absorbed in nitneem - NAAM KHUMAARI NAANKA CHADHI RAHE DIN RAAT.
This incident was shared by Bhai Nanu singh as well as Babaji in his later life. All I am saying is Guru himself assigns responsibilities basis ones potential. But Today everyone wants to be a General but not a SIPAHI. Guru sahib predicted this - GHAR GHAR HOYE BAHEN GE RAAMA, TIN TE EK NA SARHI KAAMA. Today we see 1000's of saints who are not even bookish scholars but businessmen. Only a few are like Baba Attar singh who just followed Guru Sahibs orders all his life. The sant mandli of hindus and Sikhs asked Babji to lead the procession which was organised by Viceroy of India for various activities and fields. When the viceroy saw babaji who was wearing simple cotton parna and clothes, he said - I have never seen such a powerful personality in my life. You can read his life written by Sant Teja singh ji whose lecture at parliament of world religions is extraordinary. Before meeting Baba Attar singh, Teja singh ji didn't even believe in Guru Granh sahib let alone saints. People do talk about Swami Vivekanand's address, but forgotton Teja singh ji's.
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sant_Teja_Singh
Similarly, Guru sahib sent Baba Karam singh ji to Hoti mardan (frontier area of Afghanistan) where life of Sikhs and hindus was made hell by the pathan's there. After babji went there and sangat started Kirtan and Paath, most of the pathans became followers of Guru Ghar. Read the book Pachmi Prakash by Gyani Mohan singh ji.
Again a request to the moderator, not to disapprove the post for promoting some personalities. These souls are no longer on this planet in physical form. My intention is to say that first we need to do our nitneem and rise above what wrong and right today without any enlightment. I hope these souls inspire us to do what they did so Guru also talks to us and find us responsible to carry out his tasks.
Jasbeer veer, I m not telling that you are wrong in putting this question. We have to do vichaar for our progress. But don't go after it and don't get disturbed if you find fanatic debaters in life.