Battle of Chamkaur - Are the numbers grossly exaggerated?

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Battle of Chamkaur - Are the numbers grossly exaggerated?

Postby star-lord » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:48 am

When I was growing up, it used to be amazing to hear great stories of the Sikh religion. However, as I got older, slowly, I started realizing that these stories were mostly grossly over-exaggerated, and, in some cases, completely untrue.

For example, the story of Baba Deep Singh fighting with his head (completely detached as it were) in his hand.

Guru Nanak preached the importance of using logic and critical thinking to discern from the truth and untruths, from mere rituals to something more substantive.

Anyway, now I am trying to find out more about the Battle of Chamkaur. 45-odd Sikhs against an army of 10 lakhs (1 million). To me, this sounds highly implausible. I have done some primary reading, and I have learned that while the Sikhs were strong in their rebellion against Aurangzeb, the Marathas were an even bigger threat to the Mughals.

The one source document (and the only one, I must add) that is quoted is Guru Gobind Singh's purported Zafarnama. However, on further reading, it seems like we do not have the original written Zafarnama with us, and instead what we have today is something that a Sikh scholar in the late 19th century claimed to have recited from memory of seeing a copy of the Zafarnama.

Assuming the Zafarnama is even real, we must then consider the nature of it. The Zafarnama is poetry in many ways. And in poetry, you tend to overstate things to emphasize them and for dramatic purposes. So, "10 lakhs" here could be a convenient way to say "a large enemy". Or it may have been intentionally said to arouse Sikh bravery at the time.

One million strong army in that day is no small matter. Yet there are no official records of it at all in the Mughal archieve on this.

I would love to hear from the open-minded Sikh community on the veracity of the figures quoted in the Battle of Chamkaur. I do not doubt that our fore-fathers fought valiantly, but 45 vs 1 million is pushing it beyond even high-fantasy.

Thanks!
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Re: Battle of Chamkaur - Are the numbers grossly exaggerated

Postby swarn bains » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:27 am

Sir latif is a well known writer about Sikh history. As for as the population goes. there might be a population 1 million of the entire punjab those days or at least the part of punjab now a day. According to Latif the total army of wazir khan the subedar of sarhind was 16000. Do not know how many of them were sent to the battle field. At the same time the Sheikhs of Ropar were against guru Gobind Singh as well. Most of the harm to Guru jee's army was inflicted by the sheikhs. Guru jee''s army was aniahelated by then. The guru, his panj piare, two sons and there were total of 32 volunteers who came to fihgt from the area. The battle was fought by the sikhs on one by one bases. Only one soldier went out to fight. After his death the second and so on. This way they kept fighting for the entire day and total of 37 sikhs dies. The night fell and that gave chance for guru jee to escape with two of his panj piare daya singh and dharam singh. There were no sikh historians those days. Most of the history of Punjab and sikhs was written by the muslims. There is no record with the sikhs how many enemy soldiers died. Rest is added by the dhadis and other writers who wanted to make money by playing with the emotions of the public. it is the same in today's sikh society. They are very proud of Guru jee's achievements.
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Re: Battle of Chamkaur - Are the numbers grossly exaggerated

Postby nanuckpunthee » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:59 pm

ਸਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ।

swarn bains wrote:According to Latif the total army of wazir khan the subedar of sarhind was 16000.

As per Ain-i-Akbari an army of the Faujdar of Sirhind was 40,900 infantry and 9225 cavalry, an army of the Faujdar of Kashmir was 28,175 infantry and 3382 cavalry and an army of the Subahdar of Lahore was 3,35,450 infantry and 38,150 cavalry. Note that the numbers were much higher under the Emperor Aurangzeb. Further, the armies of the Rajas of Kahlur, Kangra, Kullu, Mandi, Suket, Nurpur, Chamba, Guler, Datarpur, Siba, Jaswan, Kotlehar, Basohli, Bhaddu, Mankot, Jasrota, Behadralta, Sambha, Chaneni, Kishtwar and Bhadrwah were also there. So definitely the numbers were in lakhs (dehlak as mentioned by Guru Gobind Singh ji) not in thousands.
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Re: Battle of Chamkaur - Are the numbers grossly exaggerated

Postby lakwinder singh » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:40 pm

Swaran bains wrote

According to Latif the total army of wazir khan the subedar of sarhind was 16000. Do not know how many of them were sent to the battle field. At the same time the Sheikhs of Ropar were against guru Gobind Singh as well. Most of the harm to Guru jee's army was inflicted by the sheikhs. Guru jee''s army was aniahelated by then.
r

Swarn ji

You forgot to mention role of Hindu hill chiefs who controlled hills ranging from Jammu to Tehri Grahwal . They were the ones who combined their forces and started wars against sahib at Anandpur Sahib. First two battles were fought entirely by them and when they were defeated they went to Aurangzeb instigating him against Guru Sahib.They got his help. So forces from Hill rajas, Delhi durbar, governors of sirhind and lahore etc etc were together against guru sahib.It was just not sirhind Governor only.
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Re: Battle of Chamkaur - Are the numbers grossly exaggerated

Postby lakwinder singh » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:54 pm

star-lord wrote:When I was growing up, it used to be amazing to hear great stories of the Sikh religion. However, as I got older, slowly, I started realizing that these stories were mostly grossly over-exaggerated, and, in some cases, completely untrue.

For example, the story of Baba Deep Singh fighting with his head (completely detached as it were) in his hand.

Guru Nanak preached the importance of using logic and critical thinking to discern from the truth and untruths, from mere rituals to something more substantive.

Anyway, now I am trying to find out more about the Battle of Chamkaur. 45-odd Sikhs against an army of 10 lakhs (1 million). To me, this sounds highly implausible. I have done some primary reading, and I have learned that while the Sikhs were strong in their rebellion against Aurangzeb, the Marathas were an even bigger threat to the Mughals.

The one source document (and the only one, I must add) that is quoted is Guru Gobind Singh's purported Zafarnama. However, on further reading, it seems like we do not have the original written Zafarnama with us, and instead what we have today is something that a Sikh scholar in the late 19th century claimed to have recited from memory of seeing a copy of the Zafarnama.

Assuming the Zafarnama is even real, we must then consider the nature of it. The Zafarnama is poetry in many ways. And in poetry, you tend to overstate things to emphasize them and for dramatic purposes. So, "10 lakhs" here could be a convenient way to say "a large enemy". Or it may have been intentionally said to arouse Sikh bravery at the time.

One million strong army in that day is no small matter. Yet there are no official records of it at all in the Mughal archieve on this.

I would love to hear from the open-minded Sikh community on the veracity of the figures quoted in the Battle of Chamkaur. I do not doubt that our fore-fathers fought valiantly, but 45 vs 1 million is pushing it beyond even high-fantasy.

Thanks!


Star-lord ji

You have raised many diverse points in your post that do not belong to your central question.

Sikhs do not compare their fighting skills with others.If Marathas fought against Moghals, they deserve credit for that.Unlike Marathas who were fighting for territory, sikhs were fighting a war of righteousness against tyranny.Guru
Gobind singh ji did not have any territorials gains in his mind when he unsheathed his Sri sahib against tricks of Hill Rajas who later invited Moghals to join them.

Neither sikhs resorted to trickery of shiva ji who escaped taking advantage of a basket of sweets in which he hid himself. They fought a frontal war.When Guru sahib left chamkaur Garhi( fortress) he slapped his hands to let enemy know that he was leaving garhi.

Shiva ji and his descendants took help of several Muslim states like hyderabad etc to rope in a front against Moghals.All for grabbing territory as Muslim Governors also wanted independent rule of theirs.You know what fate Shiva ji's son met in battle.It was defeat and execution.

What happened to marathas in a frontal combat at panipat where they outnumbered Abdali forces five to one. Total decimation. So let us not compare fighting ability of one against another. They waged a war against Moghals and we give credit to them.
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Re: Battle of Chamkaur - Are the numbers grossly exaggerated

Postby lakwinder singh » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:14 pm

Star-lord ji

Zafarnama was a letter in persian to Aurangzeb.It was carried by Bhai daya singh ji to Aurangabad where emperor was camping. Original was delivered to him. How can you have original still you when it was delivered to the concerned person.In olden times people used to write letters to their distant relatives.Were they retaining originals with them?

But Guru sahib's writings were precious for his sikhs.When he was writing a document sikhs used to make utaras( copies) of those scared writings and then distribute to sangat far and wide. That is how copies of zafarnama were and are avaialble. Beer of patna toshakhana of Dasam Granth sahib written in 1698 has zafarnama appended to it when its table of contents does not show it.

Then proof of Bhai Daya singh's trip to aurangabad for delivering zafarnama lies in a Gurudwara sahib built in his memory where 300 year old manuscript of Guru Granth sahib and sri Dasam granth sahib are available.That was also in the news a couple of months back in sikh world and you seem to have missed the news.

Baba deep singh's head coming off is a separate subject and start a new thread on that if you want to contest that.We can discuss this there.Suffice to say that sikhism is a mystic path and those who have elevated themsleves spiritually and blessed with God's grace such incidents occur.They are caused by God himself. If you read Dasam Granth sahib's krishna avtar, Guru sahib has inserted his independent writing called yudh parbandhe (war management) in that.Guru sahib presents a warrior kharag singh who fights krishna.Krishna inspite of taking help of all demigods, Khansa, kaurvas, pandavas and resorting to deception is not able to match his bravery. Kharag singh's head is cut in the battle when they arrange dance of apsaras from heaven to divert his attention. He fights without head.

Please read sikh hsitory before raising such doubts>Have you heard of Baba Gurbakhash singh ji who with a handful of his men faced forces of abdali in Harmandir sahib parkarma when abdali damaged Harmandir sahib with explosives. He had gone to meet abdali forces to infuse spirit of invincibility in sikhs and martyred himself.
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Re: Battle of Chamkaur - Are the numbers grossly exaggerated

Postby swarn bains » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:13 pm

The hilly kings were only interested to get the guru out of their territory. They only came up to Sarsa. at the same time they were afraid of wazir khan as well. so they did not come to fight at Chamkaur. it was guru jee's army anf wazir khans army only. As for akbar nama is concerned it happened aboou 100 years before. at the same time Akbar spent lot of time in Punjab. he may have larger army there. Even a Muksar also the battle was between Wazir khan and Guru Jee. Aurangzeb was too busy in the south.
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Re: Battle of Chamkaur - Are the numbers grossly exaggerated

Postby lakwinder singh » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:08 pm

Swarn bains ji

Please do not try to mislead sangat on this tragic historical event. History says that siege of Anandpur was jointly by Hindu Hill rajas and imperial army of Moghals. When we say imperial army of moghals that includes army managed by Governors under moghal rule and Emperor's army from Delhi.

Of course Governors of Malekotla, sirhind, Lahore , miscellaneous muslim tribes of gujjars and sheikhs were involved along side Moghal army of delhi. Have you ever pondered over who were Nahar khan and Ghairat khan.They were in command of moghal forces and were in employ of Aurangzeb at Delhi.

Zafarnama is addressed to Aurangzeb as it was he whose forces were in command.Read following lines

ਬਰੰਗੇ ਮਗਸ ਸਯਾਹਪੋਸ਼ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥ ਬ ਯਕਬਾਰਗੀ ਦਰ ਖ਼ਰੋਸ਼ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥੨੬॥।
बरंगे मगस सयाहपोश आमदंद ॥ ब यकबारगी दर ख़रोश आमदंद ॥२६॥।
The soldiers of your army, clad in black uniforms, rushed like flies on my men.26.

ਚੁ ਦੀਸਮ ਕਿ ਨਾਹਰ ਬਿਯਾਮਦ ਬ ਜੰਗ ॥ ਚਸ਼ੀਦਮ ਯਕੇ ਤੀਰਿ ਮਨ ਬੇਦਰੰਗ ॥੨੯॥
चु दीसम कि नाहर बियामद ब जंग ॥ चशीदम यके तीरि मन बेदरंग ॥२९॥
When I saw Nahar Khan in the battlefield, he was greeted with one of my arrows.29.

Zafarnama, Dasam granth sahib


Khawaza Mardud was also a Moghal commander of Aurangzeb and his name is mentioned in Zafarnama.

ਕਿ ਆਂ ਖ਼੍ਵਾਜਹ ਮਰਦੂਦ ਸਾਯਹ ਦੀਵਾਰ ॥ ਨਯਾਮਦ ਬ ਮੈਦਾਂ ਬ ਮਰਦਾਨਹ ਵਾਰ ॥੩੪॥
कि आं ख़्वाजह मरदूद सायह दीवार ॥ नयामद ब मैदां ब मरदानह वार ॥३४॥
Khwaja Mardud hid himself behind the wall; he did not enter the field like a brave warrior.34.

Zafarnama

Zabardast Khan was another commander in Moghal army.He was from Lahore Governor.

Oath breakers were Aurangzeb's commanders and Guru sahib mentions that to Aurangzeb in Zafarnama

ਨ ਦਾਨਮ ਕਿ ਈਂ ਮਰਦਿ ਪੈਮਾਂ ਸ਼ਿਕਨ ॥ ਕਿ ਦਉਲਤ ਪਰਸਤ ਅਸਤੋ ਈਂਮਾ iਫ਼ਕਨ ॥੪੫॥
न दानम कि ईं मरदि पैमां शिकन ॥ कि दउलत परसत असतो ईंमा iफ़कन ॥४५॥
I did not know that these oath-breakers were deceitful and flowers of mammon.45.

ਨ ਈਮਾਂ ਪਰਸਤੀ ਨ ਅਉਜ਼ਾਇ ਦੀਂ ॥ ਨ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸ਼ਨਾਸੀ ਨ ਮੁਹੱਮਦ ਯਕੀਂ ॥੪੬॥
न ईमां परसती न अउज़ाइ दीं ॥ न साहिब शनासी न मुह्मद यकीं ॥४६॥
They were neither men of faith, nor true followers of Islam, they did not know the Lord not had faith in the prophet.46.

ਹਰਆਂਕਸ ਕਿ ਈਮਾਂ ਪਰਸਤੀ ਕੁਨਦ ॥ ਨ ਪੈਮਾਂ ਖ਼ੁਦਸ਼ ਪੇਸ਼ੋ ਪਸਤੀ ਕੁਨਦ ॥੪੭॥
हरआंकस कि ईमां परसती कुनद ॥ न पैमां ख़ुदश पेशो पसती कुनद ॥४७॥
He, who follows his faith with sincerity, he never budges an inch from his oaths.47.

ਕਿ ਈਂ ਮਰਦ ਰਾ ਜ਼ੱਰਹ ਏਤਬਾਰ ਨੇਸਤ ॥ ਕਿ ਕਸਮੇ ਕੁਰਾਨਸਤੁ ਯਜ਼ਦਾਂ ਯਕੇਸਤ ॥੪੮॥
कि ईं मरद रा ज़्रह एतबार नेसत ॥ कि कसमे कुरानसतु यज़दां यकेसत ॥४८॥
I have no faith at all in such a person for whom the oath of the Quran has no significance.48.

ਚੁ ਕਸਮੇ ਕੁਰਾਂ ਸਦ ਕੁਨਦ ਇਖ਼ਤਿਯਾਰ ॥ ਮਰਾ ਕਤਰਹ ਨਾਯਦ ਅਜ਼ੋ ਏਤਬਾਰ ॥੪੯॥
चु कसमे कुरां सद कुनद इख़तियार ॥ मरा कतरह नायद अज़ो एतबार ॥४९॥
Even if you swear a hundred times in the name of the Quran, I shall not trust you any more.49.

Zafarnama , Sri Dasam Granth sahib

Zafarnama was written after Guru sahib had received a letter from Aurangzeb in which he had expressed his regret on turn of events.He wanted to meet Guru sahib.

Swarn bains ji

Please do not try to mislead sangat on this tragic historical event. History says that siege of Anandpur was jointly by Hindu Hill rajas and imperial army of Moghals. When we say imperial army of moghals that includes army managed by Governors under moghal rule and Emperor's army from Delhi.

Of course Governors of Malekotla, sirhind, Lahore , miscellaneous muslim tribes of gujjars and sheikhs were involved along side Moghal army of delhi. Have you ever pondered over who were Nahar khan and Ghairat khan.They were in command of moghal forces and were in employ of Aurangzeb at Delhi.

Zafarnama is addressed to Aurangzeb as it was he whose forces were in command.Read following lines

ਬਰੰਗੇ ਮਗਸ ਸਯਾਹਪੋਸ਼ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥ ਬ ਯਕਬਾਰਗੀ ਦਰ ਖ਼ਰੋਸ਼ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥੨੬॥।
बरंगे मगस सयाहपोश आमदंद ॥ ब यकबारगी दर ख़रोश आमदंद ॥२६॥।
The soldiers of your army, clad in black uniforms, rushed like flies on my men.26.

ਚੁ ਦੀਸਮ ਕਿ ਨਾਹਰ ਬਿਯਾਮਦ ਬ ਜੰਗ ॥ ਚਸ਼ੀਦਮ ਯਕੇ ਤੀਰਿ ਮਨ ਬੇਦਰੰਗ ॥੨੯॥
चु दीसम कि नाहर बियामद ब जंग ॥ चशीदम यके तीरि मन बेदरंग ॥२९॥
When I saw Nahar Khan in the battlefield, he was greeted with one of my arrows.29.

Zafarnama, Dasam granth sahib

Zabardast Khan who was wounded in the recent battle retired to his viceroyalty of Lahore. Wazir Khan departed for Sarhind, and Khwaja Mardud went with the remnant of his army to reinforce the Emperor who was still campaigning in the south of India.

Khawaza Mardud was also a Moghal commander of Aurangzeb and his name is mentioned in Zafarnama.

ਕਿ ਆਂ ਖ਼੍ਵਾਜਹ ਮਰਦੂਦ ਸਾਯਹ ਦੀਵਾਰ ॥ ਨਯਾਮਦ ਬ ਮੈਦਾਂ ਬ ਮਰਦਾਨਹ ਵਾਰ ॥੩੪॥
कि आं ख़्वाजह मरदूद सायह दीवार ॥ नयामद ब मैदां ब मरदानह वार ॥३४॥
Khwaja Mardud hid himself behind the wall; he did not enter the field like a brave warrior.34.

Zafarnama

Zabardast Khan was another commander in Moghal army.He was from Lahore Governor.

Oath breakers were Aurangzeb's commanders and Guru sahib mentions that to Aurangzeb in Zafarnama

ਨ ਦਾਨਮ ਕਿ ਈਂ ਮਰਦਿ ਪੈਮਾਂ ਸ਼ਿਕਨ ॥ ਕਿ ਦਉਲਤ ਪਰਸਤ ਅਸਤੋ ਈਂਮਾ iਫ਼ਕਨ ॥੪੫॥
न दानम कि ईं मरदि पैमां शिकन ॥ कि दउलत परसत असतो ईंमा iफ़कन ॥४५॥
I did not know that these oath-breakers were deceitful and flowers of mammon.45.

ਨ ਈਮਾਂ ਪਰਸਤੀ ਨ ਅਉਜ਼ਾਇ ਦੀਂ ॥ ਨ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸ਼ਨਾਸੀ ਨ ਮੁਹੱਮਦ ਯਕੀਂ ॥੪੬॥
न ईमां परसती न अउज़ाइ दीं ॥ न साहिब शनासी न मुह्मद यकीं ॥४६॥
They were neither men of faith, nor true followers of Islam, they did not know the Lord not had faith in the prophet.46.

ਹਰਆਂਕਸ ਕਿ ਈਮਾਂ ਪਰਸਤੀ ਕੁਨਦ ॥ ਨ ਪੈਮਾਂ ਖ਼ੁਦਸ਼ ਪੇਸ਼ੋ ਪਸਤੀ ਕੁਨਦ ॥੪੭॥
हरआंकस कि ईमां परसती कुनद ॥ न पैमां ख़ुदश पेशो पसती कुनद ॥४७॥
He, who follows his faith with sincerity, he never budges an inch from his oaths.47.

ਕਿ ਈਂ ਮਰਦ ਰਾ ਜ਼ੱਰਹ ਏਤਬਾਰ ਨੇਸਤ ॥ ਕਿ ਕਸਮੇ ਕੁਰਾਨਸਤੁ ਯਜ਼ਦਾਂ ਯਕੇਸਤ ॥੪੮॥
कि ईं मरद रा ज़्रह एतबार नेसत ॥ कि कसमे कुरानसतु यज़दां यकेसत ॥४८॥
I have no faith at all in such a person for whom the oath of the Quran has no significance.48.

ਚੁ ਕਸਮੇ ਕੁਰਾਂ ਸਦ ਕੁਨਦ ਇਖ਼ਤਿਯਾਰ ॥ ਮਰਾ ਕਤਰਹ ਨਾਯਦ ਅਜ਼ੋ ਏਤਬਾਰ ॥੪੯॥
चु कसमे कुरां सद कुनद इख़तियार ॥ मरा कतरह नायद अज़ो एतबार ॥४९॥
Even if you swear a hundred times in the name of the Quran, I shall not trust you any more.49.

Zafarnama , Sri Dasam Granth sahib

Zafarnama was written after Guru sahib had received a letter from Aurangzeb in which he had expressed his regret on turn of events.He wanted to meet Guru sahib.Read below

ਨਵਿਸ਼ਤਹ ਰਸੀਦੋ ਬਗੁਫ਼ਤਹ ਜ਼ਬਾਂ ॥ ਬਿਬਾਯਦ ਕਿ ਈਂ ਕਾਰ ਰਾਹਤ ਰਸਾਂ ॥੫੪॥
नविशतह रसीदो बगुफ़तह ज़बां ॥ बिबायद कि ईं कार राहत रसां ॥५४॥
I have received your letter and the message, do, whatever is required to be done.54.

ਹਮੂੰ ਮਰਦ ਬਾਯਦ ਸ਼ਵਦ ਸੁਖ਼ਨਵਰ ॥ ਨ ਸ਼ਿਕਮੇ ਦਿਗਰ ਦਰ ਦਹਾਨਿ ਦਿਗਰ ॥੫੫॥
हमूं मरद बायद शवद सुख़नवर ॥ न शिकमे दिगर दर दहानि दिगर ॥५५॥
One should act on his words; the speech and action should correspond.55.

ਕਿ ਕਾਜ਼ੀ ਮਰਾ ਗੁਫ਼ਤ ਬੇਹੂੰ ਨਯਮ ॥ ਅਗਰ ਰਾਸਤੀ ਖ਼ੁਦ ਬਿਯਾਰੀ ਕਦਮ ॥੫੬॥
कि काज़ी मरा गुफ़त बेहूं नयम ॥ अगर रासती ख़ुद बियारी कदम ॥५६॥
I agree with the words conveyed by the Qazi, but if you promise to come on the right path.56.

ਤੁਰਾ ਗਰ ਬਬਾਯਦ ਕਉਲਿ ਕੁਰਾਂ ॥ ਬਨਿਜ਼ਦੇ ਸ਼ੁਮਾ ਰਾ ਰਸਾਨਮ ਹਮਾਂ ॥੫੭॥
तुरा गर बबायद कउलि कुरां ॥ बनिज़दे शुमा रा रसानम हमां ॥५७॥
If you want to see the letter containing oaths, I can send you the same immediatedly.57.

ਕਿ ਤਸ਼ਰੀਫ ਦਰ ਕਸਬਹ ਕਾਂਗੜ ਕੁਨਦ ॥ ਵਜ਼ਾਂ ਪਸ ਮੁਲਾਕਾਤ ਬਾਹਮ ਸ਼ਵਦ ॥੫੮॥
कि तशरीफ दर कसबह कांगड़ कुनद ॥ वज़ां पस मुलाकात बाहम शवद ॥५८॥
If you come yourself in village Kangar, we can meet each other.58.

ਨ ਜ਼ੱਰਹ ਦਰੀਂ ਰਾਹਿ ਖ਼ਤਰਹ ਤੁਰਾਸਤ ॥ ਹਮਹ ਕੌਮਿ ਬੈਰਾੜ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਮਰਾਸਤ ॥੫੯॥
न ज़्रह दरीं राहि ख़तरह तुरासत ॥ हमह कौमि बैराड़ हुकमि मरासत ॥५९॥
Do not bring in your mind the danger of coming there; because the Brar community acts according to my orders.59.

ਬਿਯਾ ਤਾ ਸੁਖ਼ਨ ਖ਼ੁਦ ਜ਼ਬਾਨੀ ਕੁਨੇਮ ॥ ਬਰੂਏ ਸ਼ੁਮਾ ਮਿਹਰਬਾਨੀ ਕੁਨੇਮ ॥੬੦॥
बिया ता सुख़न ख़ुद ज़बानी कुनेम ॥ बरूए शुमा मिहरबानी कुनेम ॥६०॥
We can talk to each other in this way; kindly come so that we may have direct talk.60.

ਯਕੇ ਅਸਪ ਸ਼ਾਇਸਤਹਏ ਯਕ ਹਜ਼ਾਰ ॥ ਬਿਯਾ ਤਾ ਬਗੀਰੀ ਬ ਮਨ ਈਂ ਦਿਯਾਰ ॥੬੧॥
यके असप शाइसतहए यक हज़ार ॥ बिया ता बगीरी ब मन ईं दियार ॥६१॥
Your saying that I may bring for you a very fine steed of one thousand rupees and get this area as a feoff (jagir) from you, you may keep this thing in your mind.61.

ਸ਼ਹਿਨਸ਼ਾਹਿ ਰਾ ਬੰਦਹੇ ਚਾਕਰੇਮ ॥ ਅਗਰ ਹੁਕਮ ਆਯਦ ਬਜਾ ਹਾਜ਼ਰੇਮ ॥੬੨॥
शहिनशाहि रा बंदहे चाकरेम ॥ अगर हुकम आयद बजा हाज़रेम ॥६२॥
I am the man of the Sovereign of Sovereign and His slave; if He permits me, then I shall present myself there.62.

ਅਗਰਚਿਹ ਬਿਆਯਦ ਬ ਫ਼ਰਮਾਨ ਮਨ ॥ ਹਜ਼ੂਰਤ ਬਿਯਾਯਮ ਹਮਹ ਜਾਨੁ ਤਨ ॥੬੩॥
अगरचिह बिआयद ब फ़रमान मन ॥ हज़ूरत बियायम हमह जानु तन ॥६३॥
If He permits me, then I shall be present there in person.63.

ਅਗਰ ਤੂ ਬਯਜ਼ਦਾਂ ਪਰਸਤੀ ਕੁਨੀ ॥ ਬ ਕਾਰੇ ਮਰਾ ਈਂ ਨ ਸੁਸਤੀ ਕੁਨੀ ॥੬੪॥
अगर तू बयज़दां परसती कुनी ॥ ब कारे मरा ईं न सुसती कुनी ॥६४॥
If you worship One Lord, you will not cause any delay in this work of mine.64.

ਬਿਬਾਯਦ ਕਿ ਯਜ਼ਦਾਂ ਸ਼ਨਾਸੀ ਕੁਨੀ ॥ ਨ ਗ਼ੁਫ਼ਤਹ ਕਸਾਂ ਕਸ ਖ਼ਰਾਸ਼ੀ ਕੁਨੀ ॥੬੫॥
बिबायद कि यज़दां शनासी कुनी ॥ न ग़ुफ़तह कसां कस ख़राशी कुनी ॥६५॥
You should recognize the Lord, so that you may not talk ill or cause injury to anybody.65.

Zafarnama , Sri Dasam Granth sahib

Zafarnama of Guru Gobind singh ji is itself revealing provided we read it carefully.
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Re: Battle of Chamkaur - Are the numbers grossly exaggerated

Postby Serjinder Singh » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:03 am

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fateh

The following contemporary information may be helpful.
(J. S Grewal and Irfan Habib (translator), Sikh History from Persian Sources, Tulika, New Delhi, 2001, 96)

Note from Ahkam i Alamgiri (Orders of Alamgir) preserved by Aurangzeb''s secretary Inayatullah Khan Ismi about correspondence with Wazir Khan.

"His (wazir Khan's) letter has been received containing news of encampment of Govind, the Nanak devotee at twelve
krohs (nearly 24miles )from Sarhind; of that commander's (Wazir Khan's) despatch of seven hundred calvary with a park of artillery; of that person's(Govind's) taking refuge in the house of the zamidar of the village of Chamkaur; and of his two sons and other companions being killed."

This at least confirms the number of personnel sent by Sarhind faujdar as seven hundred. One can only guess how many personnel were managed by other rulers who were much smaller and weaker than Wazir Khan.

Humbly
Serjinder Singh
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Re: Battle of Chamkaur - Are the numbers grossly exaggerated

Postby Vikramjit Singh » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:33 pm

I also believe that the force could not be more than a 1000 men. The logistics of moving a huge army to chase a handful of Sikhs would be insurmountable. Such a force would be difficult to move due lack of infrastructure in those days and the need to to carry associated equipment and supplies (an army marches on its stomach as they say).

A small force would be more mobile and capable of performing the chase they did to reach Chamkaur.

Even a force of a 1000 would severely have outnumbered the handful of Sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh. It would take great courage to keep them at bay.

Real battles are not like what they show in the movies. Striking down even one trained warrior in hand to hand combat requires great skill and courage.
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