Where did all the Khatri Sikhs go?

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Re: Where did all the Khatri Sikhs go?

Postby singhbj » Sun May 02, 2010 6:06 am

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Let us be reasonable.

Back in olden times, due to caste & social restrictions, offsprings used to follow the same occupation as older generation's.

The word khatri was associated with warriors or rulers. Due to the system there was no entry or exit from that lifestyle.
The do's & don'ts of one community was entirely different from other, therefore it was considered appropriate to marry someone compatible i.e within caste or class.

In modern society, due to rise in urban population, education, inter-mixing of communities and freedom. Nowdays caste has no real significance in regards to a person's profession & financial status. Anybody with minimum qualification can join the military or run for elections, it is a matter of choice not compulsion.

Would like to end the post by providing consolation to Badshaah ji,
you might feel better after knowing that Dr.Manmohan Singh (Prime Minister of India) although doesn't apply his family name is born into a Khukrain (Khatri) family.

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Waheguru ji ki fateh
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Re: Where did all the Khatri Sikhs go?

Postby Guest » Sun May 02, 2010 9:52 am

Romesh Kumar wrote:sukhdeep_singh......, Discussion is not about legitimacy or prevalence of caste system in skhism but about so-called hindu khatris of greater Punjab who converted to and were known as sikh khatris.
Badshaah wrote;
"Sukhdeep the discussion is merely about who is comming into the panth and where the once dominant people from Khatri background dissapeard

About what you have quoted, K'shatriyas does not necessarily related to Sikh Khatris since the a majority are Hindus..... and still are majoroty Hindu"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Badshaah......, small input if it helps. There has been a mix-up of khatri and kshatriya names in north-west India/Punjab because of dilect/pronounciation. This might also be the result of gateway and concentration of islamists in this region.
In other/remaining part of mughal india Kshatriya and Khatri were and are two different castes. ( 4 castes/varans of manusmriti put brahaman,kshatriya,khatri-bania and shudra-working class as 1, 2, 3, and 4)
Khatri/kshatriya ( mix-up in name/calling in local dilect), has actually been refered to business/bania community in this region ( mix-up of 2 and 3)with more concentration/population of them in western Punjab/now pakistan.
Kshatriya (hindu varan/caste/manusmriti no.2 etc) has actually been a warrior/ruler community/rajputs and still exist as hindu kshatriya/rajput caste in present India.
So-called caste which sikh guru sahiban had their worldly abode in was Khatri, not Kshatriya.( even now you can find hindu bedi and sodhi khatris all over punjab and outside punjab).
As I said above you can find that most of the both hindu and sikh community who migrated to India from western punjab on partition are Khatris.
Another fact which may shed some light somewhere is that nearly all or most of today's religious sects under sikh umbrella are founded,headed and run by Khatri sikhs and followed in majority by non-jat sikhs. Thanks.



Thats the problem here, because in Dasam Granth Guru Gobind SIngh Ji talks of kshatriya lineage going back to Ram Ji's children -> the peeps at Jattworld (lol) say that this is a myth and thats why Dasam Granth is not really thought of as being real and also say that the wikipedia site is giving wrong info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatri also here http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Khatri

However many Hindu's do not have issue with the notion of Khatri comming from Kshatriya its just that there was no more prestige in being a fighter or as per the sytem in times of hardship you can take up other occupations such as trading

So it is cofusing as to the situation where amongst Punjabis Katri is not the same as Kshatriya, whereas the rest of India (Hindu's) say that Khatri = Kshatriya
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Re: Where did all the Khatri Sikhs go?

Postby Guest » Sun May 02, 2010 9:59 am

TyrantStryker wrote:Alot of them merged into Hinduism, of all the castes it seems the Katris and Hindus had the most inter-marriage and although more Katris are keshdari than Jatts, they seemed to drink the kool-aid of whatever Congress was pouring.


Why are there more keshdari Khatris, out of interest?
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Re: Where did all the Khatri Sikhs go?

Postby sajjansingh » Sun May 02, 2010 10:34 pm

Sikhs of Khatri origins are mostly living in Delhi now. They had to leave their lands and huge businesses during partitions. They hold political power in Delhi and as well as Delhi Sikh Gurudwara's management power. Paramjit Singh Sarna is from Pathohari Khatri Biradari... Sardar Gurcharan Singh Tohra was so powerful that he didn't let anyone come to power during his leadership. Gurcharan Singh Tohra was also pro Jat therefore in his management mostly Sikhs were recruited who were Jats.

Khatri, Aroras and as well as Punjabi Saraswat Brahmins had the tradition of having one male child as Sikh in their families. Madan Lal Khurana who is a political leader in Delhi has older brother who is Sikh. Sikh missionary college has very large numbers of missionaries from Sikh Khatri families.

Baba Santa Singh of Budha dal of Nihangs was from Sikh Khatri family. Harbhajan Singh Yogi of 3HO also comes from Sikh Khatri family. Khatris of Pathohar by nature are not quarrelsome therefore you will see them running their businesses and reciting Gurbani. The new generation in Delhi is confused though. They have become victim of Punjabi songs and now turning into trimmed beard men and cap wearing Sikh. I was in Delhi two years back and most of the Sikhs children were wearing caps instead of Patka or turban.
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Re: Where did all the Khatri Sikhs go?

Postby Guest » Mon May 03, 2010 6:56 am

sajjansingh wrote:Sikhs of Khatri origins are mostly living in Delhi now. They had to leave their lands and huge businesses during partitions. They hold political power in Delhi and as well as Delhi Sikh Gurudwara's management power. Paramjit Singh Sarna is from Pathohari Khatri Biradari... Sardar Gurcharan Singh Tohra was so powerful that he didn't let anyone come to power during his leadership. Gurcharan Singh Tohra was also pro Jat therefore in his management mostly Sikhs were recruited who were Jats.

Khatri, Aroras and as well as Punjabi Saraswat Brahmins had the tradition of having one male child as Sikh in their families. Madan Lal Khurana who is a political leader in Delhi has older brother who is Sikh. Sikh missionary college has very large numbers of missionaries from Sikh Khatri families.

Baba Santa Singh of Budha dal of Nihangs was from Sikh Khatri family. Harbhajan Singh Yogi of 3HO also comes from Sikh Khatri family. Khatris of Pathohar by nature are not quarrelsome therefore you will see them running their businesses and reciting Gurbani. The new generation in Delhi is confused though. They have become victim of Punjabi songs and now turning into trimmed beard men and cap wearing Sikh. I was in Delhi two years back and most of the Sikhs children were wearing caps instead of Patka or turban.


A lot of Afghan Katris have come to West London (infact now they are everywhere including top high streets running business) aqnd noticed that comming from an Islamic state they maintained their appearance and there is this sudden (over 10 years) boast of paags everywhere........

I agree that panjabi culture confuses the hell out of everyone as it constantly talks about getting sharabee, women and fashion - a bit like black gangster music which sets a trend for its own people by glamourizing gang violence, gold teeth, strippers and a generally thick (stupid) attitude

Howvere - I did a search on Khatri Sikhs in India on a matrimonial site a found lots of profiles saying "must have kesh and beard and highly educated" whereas all other background sikhs quite often highlight "clean shaven"
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Re: Where did all the Khatri Sikhs go?

Postby Punjabi G » Mon May 03, 2010 9:10 am

Not sure why we have such an obsession with caste but my understanding was that All Arora, Chawla, Bhatiya, Sarna, Bedi, Sodhis, Bhalla etc. last names are Khatri.

If that's true then there are plenty of Khatri Sikhs. You won't find many in diaspora Sikhs because most Khatri sikhs came from business background and live in cities. Therefore, they were much less in numbers when Sikhs from rural Punjab (primarily Jatt Sikhs) started migrating to West in large numbers.

But in India, you can see large khatri Sikh population primarily in cities of Amritsar, Delhi, Bombay, Ludhiana etc.
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Re: Where did all the Khatri Sikhs go?

Postby singhbj » Tue May 04, 2010 5:45 am

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Frankly, get married to the one who is ready to marry you !
Nobody can clap with a single hand, both girl & the boy as well as their families must agree in order to have an Arranged Marriage.
Other than that, is simply waste of time & energy.

Just for general info.
Afghani Sikhs mostly get married within their own community and preferably with first or second cousins.
The marrying age for a girl in their community is from 16 to 23.
You will not come across a Sikh girl from Afghani background married to guy outside their own community.

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Re: Where did all the Khatri Sikhs go?

Postby arshdeepSingh » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:32 pm

I am a khatri sikh from Chandigarh.
Treating this article as a mere historical question or a question relating to anthropology.
I don't believe in caste system and not at all in favor of casteism in sikhism. Giving the answer just for providing facts.

Khatri sikhs dominated the politics of Punjab at some time I guess some 70 80 years ago.
Master Tara Singh being one of them. But then the landlord community i.e. Jatts came in.
Which factually made sense, they had land and money. And factually people with land dominate in every culture from old times.
Mostly khatris are in cities, service sector and in businesses too.

There are plenty of Khatri sikhs in Punjab and Chandigarh and other parts of world too, but they all maintain a low profile.

And khatri sikhs if you actually see (unlike me) are staunch sikhs who would marry only in sikh community.
They are liberal in certain ways, not sure if my family is like that or others too, but they wont mind marrying within any caste in sikh community, but they advice not to marry outside sikhism.

And almost 70-80% of khatri sikhs maintain the sikh faith still today.

Just giving an example, Khatri sikhs even if you see their matrimonial articles. You will find mentioned
"Groom needed, should be non trimmer, non drinker"
And they are too staunch about this.
On a lighter note, I am not getting a bride for marriage within khatris, I trim my beard. Even in Chandigarh/Mohali.

There is a good percentage of sikh khatris but they maintain a low profile.
There are good number of Sodhis, Bedis, Oberois in my family, mostly in Chandigarh and Mohali.

PS: Not at all a person who would glorify a particular caste and would want all to give up their surnames for the betterment of sikh culture.
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