No justice for India's Sikhs
10 posts • Page 1 of 1
No justice for India's Sikhs
source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... 4-massacre
No justice for India's Sikhs
India must reveal the true scale of the 1984 Sikh massacre and bring its architects to account
Schona Jolly
The Guardian, Saturday 31 October 2009 10.00 GMT
Twenty five years ago, on the morning of 1 November 1984, I woke up in London to get ready for school. My parents, of Indian Sikh origin, sat staring at the television screen. Nobody told us to brush our teeth, or to stop messing around with our Ready Brek. Shocked phone calls replaced our daily routine. The massacre of 4,000 innocent Sikhs in Delhi, and beyond, had begun. Much of the world's media has allowed the Indian government to portray what happened as an "explosion of grief" in response to Indira Gandhi's assassination by her two Sikh bodyguards following her orders on Operation Bluestar. The truth, however, is far more chilling.
The 10 days that followed Gandhi's assassination are documented extensively in eyewitness testimony. Unsubstantiated rumours began to spread on the night of 31 October that Sikhs were celebrating Gandhi's murder. By early the following morning, gangs of young men were setting alight parts of south Delhi that today are among the most elite residential neighbourhoods of the city. In Delhi, in Kanpur and in Calcutta, the police and political forces stood by while the fury of part of the population was unleashed in burnings, killings and horror. Women were gang-raped – a tactic later employed in Gujarat – and gurdwaras, homes and Sikh businesses were destroyed. There is evidence that Delhi's public buses were used to transport the gangs from neighbourhood to neighbourhood. The army was not called on to the streets on the morning of 1 November. No curfew was imposed until most of the damage was done. No credible explanation for this has ever been provided.
Two and a half decades later, the language used to describe that night remains as blurry as ever. Was it a genocide? Who drew up lists of identification? Why did the police disappear or intervene to protect the mobs rather than the victims? Did Rajiv Gandhi, the incumbent prime minister, encourage the murders through his statements on the radio? Did members of Congress incite the killings? Why did ministers fail to act when they had been warned by the army that a "holocaust" might be unleashed that very night? Who kept the army at bay? In short, was this state-sponsored violence of the order that led to another decade of brutality in which some 10,000 Punjabi Sikhs, mostly men, were "disappeared" by the state?
India is right to trumpet its many achievements over the last decade. They are well documented. But the country's progress is littered with reminders of a dangerous past which its own government has planted and then tried to bury. Unfortunately, the secular credentials of prime minister Manmohan Singh's Congress government are not all that they appear to be.
The Nanavati Commission was set up in 2000 to investigate the events with broad terms of reference. Four years later it reported back that the state had been involved. Politicians were implicated heavily, but no action taken against them. International organisations have heavily criticised the state's actions and the impunity with which the police have proceeded in Punjab and Delhi over this period, and the subsequent episode of so-called counter-insurgency operations in Punjab. In 2007, India's CBI finally announced that it was closing the case on 1984 for lack of evidence, in spite of extensive eyewitness testimony both to the violence, as well as to the involvement of police and politicians. In the 1994 report Dead Silence: Legacy of Abuses in Punjab, Human Rights Watch Asia and Physicians for Human Rights described the government operations in Punjab during the 1980s as "the most extreme example of a policy in which the end appeared to justify any and all means, including torture and murder". Still the Congress government of India stays quiet. Indeed, Manmohan Singh even described the torture, killings and disappearances as "aberrations" in the fight against terrorism.
Insaaf means justice in many Indian languages. No justice has been done for India's Sikhs, who represent just 2% of the population but whose culture, language and music now form the background to hit after Bollywood hit.
The Indian government, even with a Sikh at its head, has studiously refused to contemplate the truth of what has happened. For many of India's political and social elite, it is more convenient to forget than to confront. Why dredge up memories that are painful, and which threaten a peaceful coexistence between ethnic and religious communities, they say. The danger in that path is that what has happened before can happen again. It happened in Godhra in Gujarat in 1992, and still Narendra Modi – who is said to be the chief architect of that genocide against the Gujarati Muslim population – retains power.
International law and principles demand that states conduct effective investigations and hold perpetrators accountable. In country after country where a population has brutalised its minority, and in the case of South Africa its majority, there has needed to be an open reconciliation with the truth. It can take the form of truth commissions, like those in South Africa or in Salvador or Guatemala, or it can take the form of court actions like in Rwanda, Argentina and Chile, where the most powerful members of society, including army generals or even Pinochet himself, have been successfully prosecuted for their pivotal role in the disappearances of so many thousands of men.
It is not enough that the Delhi courts very recently convicted local small fry for their complicity in murder and criticised the Indian police for their role in the 1984 killings. The Indian government needs both to bring accountability and to be accountable in order to ensure that the architects and orchestrators are not allowed to get away with their actions .
Last week, Human Rights Watch urged India, as the world's largest democracy, to take a global role in influencing Burma, Sri Lanka and Nepal. But until the truth of the extent of state-sponsored murder on ethnic lines, both in the 1984 pogroms and the subsequent disappearances that ripped through Punjab's male population, is revealed, the country's reputation will remain besmirched.
No justice for India's Sikhs
India must reveal the true scale of the 1984 Sikh massacre and bring its architects to account
Schona Jolly
The Guardian, Saturday 31 October 2009 10.00 GMT
Twenty five years ago, on the morning of 1 November 1984, I woke up in London to get ready for school. My parents, of Indian Sikh origin, sat staring at the television screen. Nobody told us to brush our teeth, or to stop messing around with our Ready Brek. Shocked phone calls replaced our daily routine. The massacre of 4,000 innocent Sikhs in Delhi, and beyond, had begun. Much of the world's media has allowed the Indian government to portray what happened as an "explosion of grief" in response to Indira Gandhi's assassination by her two Sikh bodyguards following her orders on Operation Bluestar. The truth, however, is far more chilling.
The 10 days that followed Gandhi's assassination are documented extensively in eyewitness testimony. Unsubstantiated rumours began to spread on the night of 31 October that Sikhs were celebrating Gandhi's murder. By early the following morning, gangs of young men were setting alight parts of south Delhi that today are among the most elite residential neighbourhoods of the city. In Delhi, in Kanpur and in Calcutta, the police and political forces stood by while the fury of part of the population was unleashed in burnings, killings and horror. Women were gang-raped – a tactic later employed in Gujarat – and gurdwaras, homes and Sikh businesses were destroyed. There is evidence that Delhi's public buses were used to transport the gangs from neighbourhood to neighbourhood. The army was not called on to the streets on the morning of 1 November. No curfew was imposed until most of the damage was done. No credible explanation for this has ever been provided.
Two and a half decades later, the language used to describe that night remains as blurry as ever. Was it a genocide? Who drew up lists of identification? Why did the police disappear or intervene to protect the mobs rather than the victims? Did Rajiv Gandhi, the incumbent prime minister, encourage the murders through his statements on the radio? Did members of Congress incite the killings? Why did ministers fail to act when they had been warned by the army that a "holocaust" might be unleashed that very night? Who kept the army at bay? In short, was this state-sponsored violence of the order that led to another decade of brutality in which some 10,000 Punjabi Sikhs, mostly men, were "disappeared" by the state?
India is right to trumpet its many achievements over the last decade. They are well documented. But the country's progress is littered with reminders of a dangerous past which its own government has planted and then tried to bury. Unfortunately, the secular credentials of prime minister Manmohan Singh's Congress government are not all that they appear to be.
The Nanavati Commission was set up in 2000 to investigate the events with broad terms of reference. Four years later it reported back that the state had been involved. Politicians were implicated heavily, but no action taken against them. International organisations have heavily criticised the state's actions and the impunity with which the police have proceeded in Punjab and Delhi over this period, and the subsequent episode of so-called counter-insurgency operations in Punjab. In 2007, India's CBI finally announced that it was closing the case on 1984 for lack of evidence, in spite of extensive eyewitness testimony both to the violence, as well as to the involvement of police and politicians. In the 1994 report Dead Silence: Legacy of Abuses in Punjab, Human Rights Watch Asia and Physicians for Human Rights described the government operations in Punjab during the 1980s as "the most extreme example of a policy in which the end appeared to justify any and all means, including torture and murder". Still the Congress government of India stays quiet. Indeed, Manmohan Singh even described the torture, killings and disappearances as "aberrations" in the fight against terrorism.
Insaaf means justice in many Indian languages. No justice has been done for India's Sikhs, who represent just 2% of the population but whose culture, language and music now form the background to hit after Bollywood hit.
The Indian government, even with a Sikh at its head, has studiously refused to contemplate the truth of what has happened. For many of India's political and social elite, it is more convenient to forget than to confront. Why dredge up memories that are painful, and which threaten a peaceful coexistence between ethnic and religious communities, they say. The danger in that path is that what has happened before can happen again. It happened in Godhra in Gujarat in 1992, and still Narendra Modi – who is said to be the chief architect of that genocide against the Gujarati Muslim population – retains power.
International law and principles demand that states conduct effective investigations and hold perpetrators accountable. In country after country where a population has brutalised its minority, and in the case of South Africa its majority, there has needed to be an open reconciliation with the truth. It can take the form of truth commissions, like those in South Africa or in Salvador or Guatemala, or it can take the form of court actions like in Rwanda, Argentina and Chile, where the most powerful members of society, including army generals or even Pinochet himself, have been successfully prosecuted for their pivotal role in the disappearances of so many thousands of men.
It is not enough that the Delhi courts very recently convicted local small fry for their complicity in murder and criticised the Indian police for their role in the 1984 killings. The Indian government needs both to bring accountability and to be accountable in order to ensure that the architects and orchestrators are not allowed to get away with their actions .
Last week, Human Rights Watch urged India, as the world's largest democracy, to take a global role in influencing Burma, Sri Lanka and Nepal. But until the truth of the extent of state-sponsored murder on ethnic lines, both in the 1984 pogroms and the subsequent disappearances that ripped through Punjab's male population, is revealed, the country's reputation will remain besmirched.
With Divine Love & Blessings of Waheguru Ji, may all enjoy: peace, love, light (enlightenment), health & happiness in life !
-

Harbhajan S. Sangha - Power User
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 6:41 am
- Location: Metro Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Re: No justice for India's Sikhs
Why are there no responses to this important post? I would think, the forum would be abuzz with feedback. Or are we all just too weary, have we conceded defeat and resignation....
As far as I am concerned, this is a festering wound that will continue to eat at our souls until there is some serious attempt by the Indian Govt. at real justice. Every day that passes without justice is another day without closure -- an open wound. Open wounds never heal.
As far as I am concerned, this is a festering wound that will continue to eat at our souls until there is some serious attempt by the Indian Govt. at real justice. Every day that passes without justice is another day without closure -- an open wound. Open wounds never heal.
"If you cannot see God in all, you cannot see God at all."
"When there is no hope, YOU become The Hope!"
-- Sri Singh Sahib Harbhajan Singh Khalsa Yogijee
"When there is no hope, YOU become The Hope!"
-- Sri Singh Sahib Harbhajan Singh Khalsa Yogijee
- karakara
- Power User
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:40 pm
- Location: Westfield, Massachusetts USA
Re: No justice for India's Sikhs
Sat Sri Akal
Dear Karakara ji
A very important point was made in the post. It is important that perpetrators of crimes are brought to justice wherever the crimes are committed. If the state is incapable of recognising the acts as crimes, or is indifferent to the crimes what would you do? It is not so long ago when there was open racial prejudice in S Africa. The locals would have achieved little, if anything, had there not been world-wide campaigns and protests with concomitant pressure from other states. Tell me, what is the US doing to restore land rights of North American native Indians? Are you campaigning for them? Would you be prepared to give all the land back? What other states are pressuring the US to give it all back, with current occupiers of those lands moving back to where they originated from? If a group of Sioux or Navaho or Apache or Comanche or Dakota Indians etc ask for their land back, will the US relent and give it back. Most unlikely. The land was taken by force. There was huge genocide. They are humanitarian crimes, just as criminal as the crimes of the people who organised the deaths of Sikhs in 1984. Is it likely the Spanish are likely to recompense S American Incas or Peruvians for the gold they took? Are the British and French likely to recompense any of their former colonies for stripping them of assets? What is being done to give Tibet independence from China since they occupied it? Would there have been anything done by native Germans, to deal with the humanitarian crimes of German statesmen, had the Germans won the Second World war? Unlikely. The crimes would have become yet another series of crimes of human history, with the criminals never dealt with, just as in the US.
Justice can be done if there is a will and pressure either from the majority of the internal population, or with pressure from other states, and even then those states have to be influential states. If the majority are content with the state of play, then nothing is going to happen, whatever the level of protest from a small minority population. If there is no internal support, and no support from major (rich) states, then does one continue protesting, or does one live with the events of history? This is something people have to decide. Is it worthwhile bashing one’s head again and again when there is no progress after 25 years, when it is abundantly clear to the world that crimes were committed.
You say crimes eat at our souls, and open wounds never close, but they do close, and the crimes don’t eat at everyone’s souls. Time is an excellent healer, and methods to strengthen the will are available, without leaving one hating others for the crimes of history. I could argue against the Sikhs who killed my parents muslim neighbours in 1947, who were pleading with my mum to protect their young children. It’s not too long ago, and may I ask were the ones who suffered in 1984 still fighting to bring Sikhs who committed such colossal genocide in 1947, 37 years earlier, to justice whether they were Sikh or not? No, they were not. The vast majority accepted the status quo, just as the vast majority of Indians have accepted what happened 25 years ago. You will find Sikhs will fight for Sikh rights, Muslims will fight for Muslims rights, Hindus will fight for Hindus rights, White Americans will fight for White Americans rights, Chinese will fight for Chinese peoples’ rights and so on. Very, very few people fight for the rights of others until it personally affects them, or unless it continues and continues (eg S African racial divisions). Expecting Hindus to fight for the rights of Sikhs , and possibly bringing the wrath of other Hindus down on themselves as a result, for crime committed in a short period, is in my personal opinion something that just will not happen, however wrong the acts were.
Some things are destined to be ignored, and can be seen as God's will if one wishes to see it that way, and one has to forge the mind to bring contentment without letting the bad events eat at the soul until the day one passes away. One builds the will to bear the pain. One can use Gurbani to do this, if one wishes to. It has a great deal to do with changing one’s state of mind to deal with horrific crimes by the state rulers and by other religious persecutors, as this is what was going on in the era it was written in. There are also other ways of changing the state of mind from continuous misery to acceptance as well, so that one is content irrespective of the crimes of others against one's kith and kin, should one find the language of Gurbani incomprehensible.
If you or others have a serious alternative that will cause states like the US, Canada, UK, France and Germany and Russia to bring pressure upon India, then something may happen. However you will have to remember commercial factors have an enormous effect on every states foreign policy. Few will change their stance unless money is involved. Violence by a minority such as terrorist activities or civil rebellions are likely to be crushed by any state, and many innocents are also hurt. Look at it today in Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan. Hundreds die each week. If they all put down their weapons at least the deaths will diminish, even if they do not get revenge for past actions by others. Then over a very long period of time, some sense of normality might return. Until they do, they will just keep on dying, and they still will not get whatever revenge they seek.
Things have changed markedly since Sikh warriors of 1600s to 1800s managed to win battles, and when people recognise that the better. Iraq tried to take over an oil state, Kuwait, and look what's happened to them now. Its not just the former rulers of Iraq who suffered and who are now suffering. It would have been so much better had people accepted that Kuwait was now independent, instead of trying to reclaim it.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh
Dear Karakara ji
A very important point was made in the post. It is important that perpetrators of crimes are brought to justice wherever the crimes are committed. If the state is incapable of recognising the acts as crimes, or is indifferent to the crimes what would you do? It is not so long ago when there was open racial prejudice in S Africa. The locals would have achieved little, if anything, had there not been world-wide campaigns and protests with concomitant pressure from other states. Tell me, what is the US doing to restore land rights of North American native Indians? Are you campaigning for them? Would you be prepared to give all the land back? What other states are pressuring the US to give it all back, with current occupiers of those lands moving back to where they originated from? If a group of Sioux or Navaho or Apache or Comanche or Dakota Indians etc ask for their land back, will the US relent and give it back. Most unlikely. The land was taken by force. There was huge genocide. They are humanitarian crimes, just as criminal as the crimes of the people who organised the deaths of Sikhs in 1984. Is it likely the Spanish are likely to recompense S American Incas or Peruvians for the gold they took? Are the British and French likely to recompense any of their former colonies for stripping them of assets? What is being done to give Tibet independence from China since they occupied it? Would there have been anything done by native Germans, to deal with the humanitarian crimes of German statesmen, had the Germans won the Second World war? Unlikely. The crimes would have become yet another series of crimes of human history, with the criminals never dealt with, just as in the US.
Justice can be done if there is a will and pressure either from the majority of the internal population, or with pressure from other states, and even then those states have to be influential states. If the majority are content with the state of play, then nothing is going to happen, whatever the level of protest from a small minority population. If there is no internal support, and no support from major (rich) states, then does one continue protesting, or does one live with the events of history? This is something people have to decide. Is it worthwhile bashing one’s head again and again when there is no progress after 25 years, when it is abundantly clear to the world that crimes were committed.
You say crimes eat at our souls, and open wounds never close, but they do close, and the crimes don’t eat at everyone’s souls. Time is an excellent healer, and methods to strengthen the will are available, without leaving one hating others for the crimes of history. I could argue against the Sikhs who killed my parents muslim neighbours in 1947, who were pleading with my mum to protect their young children. It’s not too long ago, and may I ask were the ones who suffered in 1984 still fighting to bring Sikhs who committed such colossal genocide in 1947, 37 years earlier, to justice whether they were Sikh or not? No, they were not. The vast majority accepted the status quo, just as the vast majority of Indians have accepted what happened 25 years ago. You will find Sikhs will fight for Sikh rights, Muslims will fight for Muslims rights, Hindus will fight for Hindus rights, White Americans will fight for White Americans rights, Chinese will fight for Chinese peoples’ rights and so on. Very, very few people fight for the rights of others until it personally affects them, or unless it continues and continues (eg S African racial divisions). Expecting Hindus to fight for the rights of Sikhs , and possibly bringing the wrath of other Hindus down on themselves as a result, for crime committed in a short period, is in my personal opinion something that just will not happen, however wrong the acts were.
Some things are destined to be ignored, and can be seen as God's will if one wishes to see it that way, and one has to forge the mind to bring contentment without letting the bad events eat at the soul until the day one passes away. One builds the will to bear the pain. One can use Gurbani to do this, if one wishes to. It has a great deal to do with changing one’s state of mind to deal with horrific crimes by the state rulers and by other religious persecutors, as this is what was going on in the era it was written in. There are also other ways of changing the state of mind from continuous misery to acceptance as well, so that one is content irrespective of the crimes of others against one's kith and kin, should one find the language of Gurbani incomprehensible.
If you or others have a serious alternative that will cause states like the US, Canada, UK, France and Germany and Russia to bring pressure upon India, then something may happen. However you will have to remember commercial factors have an enormous effect on every states foreign policy. Few will change their stance unless money is involved. Violence by a minority such as terrorist activities or civil rebellions are likely to be crushed by any state, and many innocents are also hurt. Look at it today in Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan. Hundreds die each week. If they all put down their weapons at least the deaths will diminish, even if they do not get revenge for past actions by others. Then over a very long period of time, some sense of normality might return. Until they do, they will just keep on dying, and they still will not get whatever revenge they seek.
Things have changed markedly since Sikh warriors of 1600s to 1800s managed to win battles, and when people recognise that the better. Iraq tried to take over an oil state, Kuwait, and look what's happened to them now. Its not just the former rulers of Iraq who suffered and who are now suffering. It would have been so much better had people accepted that Kuwait was now independent, instead of trying to reclaim it.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh
O Nanak, sing of the Lord, the Treasure of Excellence. Sing, and listen, and let your mind be filled with love. Your pain shall be sent far away, and peace shall come to your home.
A quite positive blog site : http://drvaleriegalante.wordpress.com/
A quite positive blog site : http://drvaleriegalante.wordpress.com/
-

himmat_singh - Power User
- Posts: 575
- Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:33 am
Re: No justice for India's Sikhs
Karkara,
Coming to this website.
Don’t keep the focus on those who we know are against us.
However, Those Who you would think are the friendly’s aren’t really the friendly’s to us.
This is the type of website that would trap hanzel and gretel, then fatten them up, but there are no towns people to save them.
Coming to this website.
Don’t keep the focus on those who we know are against us.
However, Those Who you would think are the friendly’s aren’t really the friendly’s to us.
This is the type of website that would trap hanzel and gretel, then fatten them up, but there are no towns people to save them.
- snowy
- Active Forum User
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:24 pm
Re: No justice for India's Sikhs
After 25 years let us pray to God.Despite all odds a river moves on and on.Life moves on even though the limbs might be losAfter all ,of what use repenting is?
My blogger profile
http://www.blogger.com/profile/07405448442356331685 +At twitter http://twitter.com/KamaljitSinggh
http://www.blogger.com/profile/07405448442356331685 +At twitter http://twitter.com/KamaljitSinggh
-

KamaljitSingh - Active Forum User
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:23 am
- Location: Jagraon
Re: No justice for India's Sikhs
Yes, there is no justice and there may never be from Indian Judicial System but please don't think that Sikhs should just forget about what happened to them 25 years ago. I am glad there are still some groups working actively to keep the memories alive and also fighting for the justice.
What's odd is that there are some people who keep insisting that Sikhs should have never used weapons or fought against Indian government in 1980s, that they should have tried to seek justice. But they very same people will also tell us to just forget and move on! Why not join in seeking justice for those who were killed cold blooded in the streets of Delhi? Why won't these same people get involved in remembrance marches or sign petitions?
Here are few links to those groups who are really doing something! Perhaps those who care, can use these links:
http://www.nov1984.org/
http://www.sikhsforjustice.org/?q=node/9
What's odd is that there are some people who keep insisting that Sikhs should have never used weapons or fought against Indian government in 1980s, that they should have tried to seek justice. But they very same people will also tell us to just forget and move on! Why not join in seeking justice for those who were killed cold blooded in the streets of Delhi? Why won't these same people get involved in remembrance marches or sign petitions?
Here are few links to those groups who are really doing something! Perhaps those who care, can use these links:
http://www.nov1984.org/
http://www.sikhsforjustice.org/?q=node/9
- Punjabi G
- Active Forum User
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 11:21 am
Re: No justice for India's Sikhs
Snowyji,
Sikhnet is an excellent platform.We may call it a cyber Gurudwara.It is perhaps not meant to trap innocent kids.I do not know whom do you wish to call Hanzel and Gretel but the child devouring witch of the fable can well be compared to the narrow fundamental,radical,terrorist mentality.I feel my sikh brothers and sisters who were so child like and innocent were consumed by it in 1984.WJKKWJKF
Sikhnet is an excellent platform.We may call it a cyber Gurudwara.It is perhaps not meant to trap innocent kids.I do not know whom do you wish to call Hanzel and Gretel but the child devouring witch of the fable can well be compared to the narrow fundamental,radical,terrorist mentality.I feel my sikh brothers and sisters who were so child like and innocent were consumed by it in 1984.WJKKWJKF
My blogger profile
http://www.blogger.com/profile/07405448442356331685 +At twitter http://twitter.com/KamaljitSinggh
http://www.blogger.com/profile/07405448442356331685 +At twitter http://twitter.com/KamaljitSinggh
-

KamaljitSingh - Active Forum User
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:23 am
- Location: Jagraon
Re: No justice for India's Sikhs
Himmat Singh ji,
I had a feeling that you would take this opportunity to reflect on these issues and render an opinion or two -- and your reply has provided a lot of food for thought.
You begun with the obvious: what can be done:
The fact remains that unspeakable crimes occurred over a period of years, and arguably continue to this day. And what is to be done? Perhaps it's easier to answer what should not be done.
Sikhs should not:
FORGET. It's natural to either consciously or unconsciously attempt to heal the wounds of the mind, heart and soul by suppressing painful memories as a means of healing. But the truth is, at some level we can never heal until justice has been done in some form. Any other belief is delusion, denial, self-deception. Consider that if justice is not done, then not only does the collective wound to the Sikh psyche persist trans generationaly, but also that in the minds of too many, the actions against Sikhs was justified. THEY WILL HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT. This sets the stage for more pogroms, never-ending covert government operations, govt. policy, future murderous riots, etc., in the future. Tell me: when will there be a time when a certain element of Indian society will not take to the streets in mob force with intent on murderous rampage.. the opportunity and pretext need only present itself. I think everyone on this forum knows of what I speak without naming names. The history of religious-based pogroms is that they are cyclical. Unless the cycle is broken, they repeat for centuries until the evil paradigm which fosters and enables such atrocities is broken. For example, we see that to this very day, the ingrained anti-Semitism of Christianity and Islam guarantees both outright violence against Jews, and if that is not possible, then a low-grade animosity which also simmers trans generationally until conditions arise which again lead to a renewed cycle of violence.
REMAIN SILENT. We have a saying in the U.S.: "The Squeeky Wheel Gets The Oil". We owe it to those who suffered and died to keep up a relentless pressure, both in India, the diaspora, and the greater international Sikh community. Every Sikh must, on some level, become a vocal activist for justice and education. I know I'm not saying anything new here. Realize, in The West, it's likely that the majority of the populations have never heard of a Sikh, never mind 'Operation Blue Star', etc. If anyone doubt this, then a simple survey in any U.S. city will prove this point. With the internet, there is now no reason while awareness of our cause cannot increase exponentially. It just takes the will and effort to get the information out.
CONCEDE DEFEAT.
Let's show the world what we are made of, as the world is largely ignorant of this. And too many of those who do know what the Sikh heart is made of, fear us. Not in the sense that anyone legitimately has anything to fear of us, rather, that those who's natural inclination is to desire to impose their will upon us; -- who wish to dominate us, know that they cannot, and resort to campaigns to break us. Let us bolster our pride, self knowledge, and surety of our way: while we clamor unceasingly for justice, we at the same time must not come across as a pathetic, defeated people with a victim mindset. I would think that along this line of action, we should strive as much as possible to cease the incessant bickering and infighting, as this is the sign of people who have lost their purpose and their way.
dear Ji,
You have made many excellent points.. I'll stop here for brevity's sake.
Satnam
I had a feeling that you would take this opportunity to reflect on these issues and render an opinion or two -- and your reply has provided a lot of food for thought.
You begun with the obvious: what can be done:
A very important point was made in the post. It is important that perpetrators of crimes are brought to justice wherever the crimes are committed. If the state is incapable of recognizing the acts as crimes, or is indifferent to the crimes what would you do?
The fact remains that unspeakable crimes occurred over a period of years, and arguably continue to this day. And what is to be done? Perhaps it's easier to answer what should not be done.
Sikhs should not:
FORGET. It's natural to either consciously or unconsciously attempt to heal the wounds of the mind, heart and soul by suppressing painful memories as a means of healing. But the truth is, at some level we can never heal until justice has been done in some form. Any other belief is delusion, denial, self-deception. Consider that if justice is not done, then not only does the collective wound to the Sikh psyche persist trans generationaly, but also that in the minds of too many, the actions against Sikhs was justified. THEY WILL HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT. This sets the stage for more pogroms, never-ending covert government operations, govt. policy, future murderous riots, etc., in the future. Tell me: when will there be a time when a certain element of Indian society will not take to the streets in mob force with intent on murderous rampage.. the opportunity and pretext need only present itself. I think everyone on this forum knows of what I speak without naming names. The history of religious-based pogroms is that they are cyclical. Unless the cycle is broken, they repeat for centuries until the evil paradigm which fosters and enables such atrocities is broken. For example, we see that to this very day, the ingrained anti-Semitism of Christianity and Islam guarantees both outright violence against Jews, and if that is not possible, then a low-grade animosity which also simmers trans generationally until conditions arise which again lead to a renewed cycle of violence.
REMAIN SILENT. We have a saying in the U.S.: "The Squeeky Wheel Gets The Oil". We owe it to those who suffered and died to keep up a relentless pressure, both in India, the diaspora, and the greater international Sikh community. Every Sikh must, on some level, become a vocal activist for justice and education. I know I'm not saying anything new here. Realize, in The West, it's likely that the majority of the populations have never heard of a Sikh, never mind 'Operation Blue Star', etc. If anyone doubt this, then a simple survey in any U.S. city will prove this point. With the internet, there is now no reason while awareness of our cause cannot increase exponentially. It just takes the will and effort to get the information out.
CONCEDE DEFEAT.
Let's show the world what we are made of, as the world is largely ignorant of this. And too many of those who do know what the Sikh heart is made of, fear us. Not in the sense that anyone legitimately has anything to fear of us, rather, that those who's natural inclination is to desire to impose their will upon us; -- who wish to dominate us, know that they cannot, and resort to campaigns to break us. Let us bolster our pride, self knowledge, and surety of our way: while we clamor unceasingly for justice, we at the same time must not come across as a pathetic, defeated people with a victim mindset. I would think that along this line of action, we should strive as much as possible to cease the incessant bickering and infighting, as this is the sign of people who have lost their purpose and their way.
dear Ji,
You have made many excellent points.. I'll stop here for brevity's sake.
Satnam
"If you cannot see God in all, you cannot see God at all."
"When there is no hope, YOU become The Hope!"
-- Sri Singh Sahib Harbhajan Singh Khalsa Yogijee
"When there is no hope, YOU become The Hope!"
-- Sri Singh Sahib Harbhajan Singh Khalsa Yogijee
- karakara
- Power User
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:40 pm
- Location: Westfield, Massachusetts USA
Re: No justice for India's Sikhs
REMAIN SILENT. We have a saying in the U.S.: "The Squeeky Wheel Gets The Oil". We owe it to those who suffered and died to keep up a relenting pressure, both in India, the diaspora, and the greater international Sikh community.
My apologies, I meant relentless .
Damn this forum's inability to provide convenient means to edit one's own posts. Is it so much to ask?
Moderator comment: You could post the entire message with a note to the moderators telling them to replace your old message. We cannot allow changes to, or deletion of an item after others have responded to it.
"If you cannot see God in all, you cannot see God at all."
"When there is no hope, YOU become The Hope!"
-- Sri Singh Sahib Harbhajan Singh Khalsa Yogijee
"When there is no hope, YOU become The Hope!"
-- Sri Singh Sahib Harbhajan Singh Khalsa Yogijee
- karakara
- Power User
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:40 pm
- Location: Westfield, Massachusetts USA
Re: No justice for India's Sikhs
Sat Sri Akal
Dear Karakara ji,
You needn't apologise for such minor typo errors. Most of us make them, and the gist of your post comes through load and clear anyway.
Agreed.
This is a dicey point. I'll tell you why I think like this below.
You are making it clear that you are proud to be Sikh and you attribute certain characteristics to them, implying non-sikhs don't all have them. That's okay with me to a point, because I believe this is a natural human trait to identify oneself as part of a group, and then be proud of its heritage and attributes. However this is against Sikhi. A sikh sees all as equals. There is no Hindu, no Muslim, no Christian, etc and hence NO SIKH either. We are as much as and as equal as the next person, irrespective of religion, colour, creed, sex. You are seeing Sikhs as a distinct race. They may or may not be in practice, but the spiritual aim is not to see people as different.
The second point is that things need to be two-way, if there is going to be united community support. I can feel deeply for Sikhs and I do. I will try to support them but something sticks at the back of my mind, and it rankles from time to time. When it comes to being seen as Sikh, Sikhs are endlessly spurning the approx 85% of people who see themselves as Sikhs but don't conform when it comes to 5Ks, alcohol etc. I don't know whether you remember pre 1984, but the people now seen as sants and saints had a very definite agenda, and it included action to bring the 85% into line, and it included violence at times. I accept most of the Delhi victims of 1984 were probably innocent, and had nothing to do with those "activists". However until that 15% lose their sense of pride and realise that they way they behave and maintain their codes continues to alienate a whole lot of people that they then want support from in tough times, they cannot realistically expect to get 100% support. This is life, if one gives support, one gets support, if one alienates then the alienated people are going to be quite reluctant to support and may even do the opposite. At the least, a great many of them will be indifferent. They are as human as the ones who are deeply proud of their traditions and heritage, see themselves as a distinct race, despite Sikhi advising otherwise.
All humans are susceptible to emotions, unless they are truly detached from worldy events.
Many of the 15% are heavily involved in identifying themselves as the Khalsa, and are extremely proud of the fact. Lots of them focus more on the keeping to the code of the Khalsa than the practice of following SGGS ji which has no such code. They are also ready to attack anything that is slightly out of line with their perceptions.
Just recently the SGPC, the formal body of the Khalsa, pushed to exclude people who trimmed their eyebrows as non-sikhs. This was extreme, denying support to people who have grown up and seen themselves as Sikh throughout their lives. Furthermore there is no sense of realism on the part of some. Hence the Vienna incident. If people can be physically attacked over how SGGS ji is perceived to have been mistreated, how can they possibly expect support when they themselves or their families get hurt? Things work both ways. If fanaticism dwindles then there will be more humility, more compassion, more charity, more support, more pushing for justice. If one is rejected, and is even attacked, and is then asked for support it will take a very special person to still offer that support to someone who has previously seen one as almost an enemy. There is much lip-service going on. Unity is the way to get support, not putting up shutters and barriers to unity. Guru Nanak was about unity, with no classes, no distinctions, no dress codes, no rituals. This simply is not the case now. People are slammed for not keeping to dress codes and not keeping to the Rehat Maryada. This, I believe, is the root cause to the lack of full support from the full 85%. At heart they see themselves as quite different to many of the 15%, although they share the same religious title, visit the same Gurudwaras, support them, go through the practices there whether they see purpose in them or not, otherwise they will feel guilty, yet come out again to continue a pretty care-free life, including the life-style of traditional Punjabis, including drinking, partying, maintenance of caste for example in marriage of children, running of Gurudwaras etc. Until they are included, the 15% are pretty much on their own. They get as much support as one would support the Taliban when they lose family members and suffer at the hands of those now attacking the Taliban. All the Taliban will not be bad at all. They will be losing many innocents, elderly people, women and children. Does one support those innocents though, if one knows their leaders are actually against one and sees one as different. This is life. Unity is the way forward.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh
Dear Karakara ji,
karakara wrote:My apologies, I meant relentless .
You needn't apologise for such minor typo errors. Most of us make them, and the gist of your post comes through load and clear anyway.
karakara wrote:Sikhs should not: FORGET.
Agreed.
I don't think so, not in the eyes of ones who Sikhs expect support from (ie sikhs with a small s)but you may be right. I think they think the actions could have been anticipated, rather than justified.karakara wrote:in the minds of too many, the actions against Sikhs was justified.
karakara wrote:Every Sikh must, on some level, become a vocal activist for justice and education.
This is a dicey point. I'll tell you why I think like this below.
karakara wrote:Let us bolster our pride, self knowledge, and surety of our way: while we clamor unceasingly for justice, we at the same time must not come across as a pathetic, defeated people with a victim mindset.
You are making it clear that you are proud to be Sikh and you attribute certain characteristics to them, implying non-sikhs don't all have them. That's okay with me to a point, because I believe this is a natural human trait to identify oneself as part of a group, and then be proud of its heritage and attributes. However this is against Sikhi. A sikh sees all as equals. There is no Hindu, no Muslim, no Christian, etc and hence NO SIKH either. We are as much as and as equal as the next person, irrespective of religion, colour, creed, sex. You are seeing Sikhs as a distinct race. They may or may not be in practice, but the spiritual aim is not to see people as different.
The second point is that things need to be two-way, if there is going to be united community support. I can feel deeply for Sikhs and I do. I will try to support them but something sticks at the back of my mind, and it rankles from time to time. When it comes to being seen as Sikh, Sikhs are endlessly spurning the approx 85% of people who see themselves as Sikhs but don't conform when it comes to 5Ks, alcohol etc. I don't know whether you remember pre 1984, but the people now seen as sants and saints had a very definite agenda, and it included action to bring the 85% into line, and it included violence at times. I accept most of the Delhi victims of 1984 were probably innocent, and had nothing to do with those "activists". However until that 15% lose their sense of pride and realise that they way they behave and maintain their codes continues to alienate a whole lot of people that they then want support from in tough times, they cannot realistically expect to get 100% support. This is life, if one gives support, one gets support, if one alienates then the alienated people are going to be quite reluctant to support and may even do the opposite. At the least, a great many of them will be indifferent. They are as human as the ones who are deeply proud of their traditions and heritage, see themselves as a distinct race, despite Sikhi advising otherwise.
All humans are susceptible to emotions, unless they are truly detached from worldy events.
Many of the 15% are heavily involved in identifying themselves as the Khalsa, and are extremely proud of the fact. Lots of them focus more on the keeping to the code of the Khalsa than the practice of following SGGS ji which has no such code. They are also ready to attack anything that is slightly out of line with their perceptions.
Just recently the SGPC, the formal body of the Khalsa, pushed to exclude people who trimmed their eyebrows as non-sikhs. This was extreme, denying support to people who have grown up and seen themselves as Sikh throughout their lives. Furthermore there is no sense of realism on the part of some. Hence the Vienna incident. If people can be physically attacked over how SGGS ji is perceived to have been mistreated, how can they possibly expect support when they themselves or their families get hurt? Things work both ways. If fanaticism dwindles then there will be more humility, more compassion, more charity, more support, more pushing for justice. If one is rejected, and is even attacked, and is then asked for support it will take a very special person to still offer that support to someone who has previously seen one as almost an enemy. There is much lip-service going on. Unity is the way to get support, not putting up shutters and barriers to unity. Guru Nanak was about unity, with no classes, no distinctions, no dress codes, no rituals. This simply is not the case now. People are slammed for not keeping to dress codes and not keeping to the Rehat Maryada. This, I believe, is the root cause to the lack of full support from the full 85%. At heart they see themselves as quite different to many of the 15%, although they share the same religious title, visit the same Gurudwaras, support them, go through the practices there whether they see purpose in them or not, otherwise they will feel guilty, yet come out again to continue a pretty care-free life, including the life-style of traditional Punjabis, including drinking, partying, maintenance of caste for example in marriage of children, running of Gurudwaras etc. Until they are included, the 15% are pretty much on their own. They get as much support as one would support the Taliban when they lose family members and suffer at the hands of those now attacking the Taliban. All the Taliban will not be bad at all. They will be losing many innocents, elderly people, women and children. Does one support those innocents though, if one knows their leaders are actually against one and sees one as different. This is life. Unity is the way forward.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh
O Nanak, sing of the Lord, the Treasure of Excellence. Sing, and listen, and let your mind be filled with love. Your pain shall be sent far away, and peace shall come to your home.
A quite positive blog site : http://drvaleriegalante.wordpress.com/
A quite positive blog site : http://drvaleriegalante.wordpress.com/
-

himmat_singh - Power User
- Posts: 575
- Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:33 am
10 posts • Page 1 of 1
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Ask Jeeves [Bot] and 6 guests
