Existence of GOD

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Existence of GOD

Postby Guest » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:03 am

Sat Sri Akal Everyone,

I understand that Sikhism has belief in a creator God or Waheguru.
I would like anyone to provide any evidence for the existence of God because so far, I am yet to see any.

Thank You in Advance
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Re: Existence of GOD

Postby swarn bains » Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:42 pm

I watched on tv when neil armstrong landed on the moon. i was very happy to see that. the next day i met a man like u. i was excited to tell to him. when i told him this all that i saw. he said to me that you are lying about it. it cannot happen and then he said to me i will believe it when you or anyone else can show it to me. i got surprised and puzzled and thought what i do now. i stood for a while and an idea came to me. it was " what is your status on this earth. how much power you command and how much u can claim". then he did not have the answer and the story ended. i have the same question to you what is your status in godly terms and how much power you claim to see the God. Put your claim and proof and then boast about it before you ask someone to give you the proof of existence of God. Look in your mind and then put a post, i might be able to answer your question. thanks
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Re: Existence of GOD

Postby Guest » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:23 pm

swarn bains,

If you don't have anything useful to share then, please don't.
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Re: Existence of GOD

Postby Nihal Singh Kanakpuria » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:00 pm

Raj2013,

What do you attribute the creation of this earth, existence of so many species, existence of senses for species, this universe, "the part, before big bang", existence of black holes, gravity , sun, moon, earth, galaxies etc etc etc


-Nihal
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Re: Existence of GOD

Postby Guest » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:38 pm

Nihal,

First of all, Creation is not the word I use. If you are claiming Creation, you must provide evidence.

The existence of this Universe and all things in it such as species, stars, galaxies, etc don't need to be attributed to anything. In science, we do have pretty good explanation about origins of the universe and of the evolution of the species which is supported by evidence.

What I am really asking someone preferably from the Sikh community is some evidence that demonstrates the worshipped God or Waheguru. Because if this God cannot be demonstrated in any way, then it is just as likely to be made up like the other 2800 Gods that people worship all round the world.
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Re: Existence of GOD

Postby Romesh Kumar » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:30 am

Raj2013 wrote:I understand that Sikhism has belief in a creator God or Waheguru.


Raj2013 Ji,

In my personal views, without any intention to offend any one and based on my personal understanding of scriptures of different religions and religious offshoots ''God is a belief''. A belief which revolves in and around TRUTH and UNIVERSE around us. This belief can not be realized/sensed/seen/felt with our two physical eyes. You will agree that all the religions and their founders believe in and preach of One God of universe in their own way and interpretations.
Different religions/religious offshoots of the world are outcome of socio-political evolution and developments of different times in different parts of the world and affiliation to them are socio-politico-legal identities of followers in modern world. Every one is free to paste the label of his/her choice subject to fulfillment of some man-made conditions but that will necessarily not answer your question/s.
Science has its own and more realistic theories, findings and views on ''creation of universe'' but again it depends ''what an individual personally believes in''.
Raj2013 wrote:I would like anyone to provide any evidence for the existence of God because so far, I am yet to see any.

We can 'believe' that His Creation around us is 'an evidence' of His existence but it still remains a belief which can be counter-argued by 'another belief' or by science. That includes the beliefs of different founders of different religions of Him, otherwise there would have been 'only one belief' therby one religion in the world. As such, in my views He remains 'A Belief'. I believe that since God is believed to be ONE then he can not be divided nor any one can claim to be rightful custodians of Him.
Last but not least, what has been your own belief ?
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Re: Existence of GOD

Postby Jaybee » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:22 am

Hi Raj, first of all, I'm not a Sikh, I am a Christian who (obviously) believes in God. I also have a keen interest in Science.

Raj2013 wrote:
First of all, Creation is not the word I use. If you are claiming Creation, you must provide evidence.

The existence of this Universe and all things in it such as species, stars, galaxies, etc don't need to be attributed to anything. In science, we do have pretty good explanation about origins of the universe and of the evolution of the species which is supported by evidence.


I have to say, I'm finding this to be an increasingly common misconception these days. You write about "We in science"...just who is this "we" of which you write? Are YOU a Physicist? I will start out by assuming that you are not, so will give you some basics (you might already know).

The scientific evidence favouring God's existence is a lot more compelling than any that doubts it. You may be aware that every atom of matter has a defined chronological creation point. You also probably know that nature abhors a vacuum. Every point in the universe has either energy, or matter, or a mixture of both. Never neither. Matter can be converted to energy, but not vice-versa by inanimate objects (and we will leave aside, for now, the sheer wondrousness itself of life as being powerful evidence of God). There are x trillion tons of matter throughout the universe. Now, if you accept that each atom in those trillions of tons of matter had to have been created, then resolve THIS: what created the oldest?

What I am really asking someone preferably from the Sikh community is some evidence that demonstrates the worshipped God or Waheguru. Because if this God cannot be demonstrated in any way, then it is just as likely to be made up like the other 2800 Gods that people worship all round the world.


Let's flip this around, and I will put my second query to you; what evidence do you have that He does NOT exist?
One God.
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Re: Existence of GOD

Postby Guest » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:35 am

Romesh Kumar,

Romesh Kumar wrote:In my personal views, without any intention to offend any one and based on my personal understanding of scriptures of different religions and religious offshoots ''God is a belief''.

Romesh Kumar wrote:We can 'believe' that His Creation around us is 'an evidence' of His existence but it still remains a belief which can be counter-argued by 'another belief' or by science.


So what you are saying is that God is a belief. and in you own words, if we can believe that the "Creation" all around us is "an evidence" then God still remains a belief. But this has nothing to do with the truth. Anybody can believe in anything that they want but that doesn't affect reality in any way. Even if millions of people believe in something, it still doesn't help at all.

Moreover, seems that you have a very poor understanding of science. Science doesn't have views, theories and findings based on individual beliefs. In fact, anything in science is accepted only after sufficient evidence is available. Even after that, science is open to new evidence. Not like the God belief which is unchanging and not demonstrable.

My position on this is the default position. I reject the belief many hold about a diety i.e, God. so, basically I don't hold any beliefs about the existence of a God. But I am open to anyone to show any kind of evidence.
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Re: Existence of GOD

Postby swarn bains » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:57 am

Raj jee. sorry for my abrut answer. please forgive me. now i will try to say what my mind says.
science is the function of brain. The brain is an entity and has the identity. so what the brains interprets can be proven and written on the paper and shown to the human race.
divinity , God, godliness is the function of the mind. the mind is not an entity and it does not have identity. so whatever the mind contemplates cannot be interpreted and brought out. it stays in the mind.
it is written in sggs. nirbhao kine na dekhia yaandiea, bhao hoe nirbhao hoe vanahambe.
Kabeer sahib says. o innocent mind; no one has seen the nirbhao God. but if one is concerned and humbly dedicated then the mind exploits it and brings it out to the forefront of the mind and to some degree becomes God by itself. It still cannot cannot be brought out. Human being is very clever. if God could be seen by the eye then the human being will destroy it. it is only the feeling of the mind. as they say feed a sweet to a mute. he will enjoy it, because he cannot speak, so he cannot bring it out. same is God or godliness. Closest to God is the guru or the murshad. If one is dedicated and humble in love with the guru. he or she can experience this joy of godliness. it is the state of mind only. nothing else. it is for enjoying only. as soon as someone starts to show off, it disappears. i am not a scholar. my language rough. so please forgive me for what i wrote. please guide me if anyone will?

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Re: Existence of GOD

Postby Nihal Singh Kanakpuria » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:06 pm

Raj2013,

if you want to rule by the sword then you should live by it as well.

Science doesn't provide reasons why the earth exists or why do we exist..it doesn't fall in the regime of science, Similarly spiritual knowledge doesn't provide proof that fits in a scientific model of reality. That's not the purpose of spiritual knowledge . If you are looking for a mathematical model or a scientific lab model then there aren't any.

You say if Sikhs cannot provide you proof on existence of God then its made up ...Something made up means something that's not real, maybe you should read physicists view on reality and what we term reality is nothing but models of reality and we accept the model that fits us well.

A quote from Stephan Hawking.

One can't prove that God doesn't exist, but science makes God unnecessary


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Design_(book)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-dependent_realism

-Nihal
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