proof that Adi Granth was made Guru please

[fiveshabds]

Hi
I am a history student.

Can anyone provide proof that the Adi Granth was made Guru, and was made Guru for all future sikhs rather than just the current disciples or sikhs who were alive at the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

How do we know that Guru Gobind Singh Ji meant that the Adi Granth will be the Guru or God for everyone when God was sending his Sons or Gurus to earth to carry on his mission. Why would God change his method of bringing souls back to Him? In the time of Guru Nanak, there was no Adi Granth and Guru Nanak was able to take his marked sheep back to the lord, so why was Gods method changed? God used his Sons in the time of Jesus, when he sent Saint John, Jesus Christ, and then Saint Paul and Saint Peter. In those time Jesus had apostles. The Buddha used the relationship of master and disciple to take souls back to the Lord. Where is the proof that the Adi Granth was made Guru for all future people born in the Sikh tradition, and not just for his remaining disciples who could have understood the message much better since they are likely to know what Guru Gobind Singh Ji meant since they had contact him whilst he was alive.

People say the rumour is that Guru Gobind Singh made the Adi Granth a Guru forever for the rest of the sikhs, but it may well be just a rumour. And how do we know the people who read this 100 years later did not misinterpret the message for example the message may have been meant for the living sikhs at the time who were already baptised by Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

As we do not have the exact spoken words of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, in audio form, it is easy to misinterpret things. Does anyone have concrete proof of what Guru Gobind Singh Ji has said?

[AS Khalsa]

Can anyone provide proof that the Adi Granth was made Guru, and was made Guru for all future sikhs rather than just the current disciples or sikhs who were alive at the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

If Guru Gobind Singh Ji made Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Guru at all, then he could only have meant it to be forever. Guru Granth Sahib Ji after all, not being a human, lacks the agency to nominate or appoint successors. Considering that Guru Granth Sahib couldn't ever possibly appoint a Guru to succeed them, how could they be anything but the very last in the line of Guruship?

How do we know that Guru Gobind Singh Ji meant that the Adi Granth will be the Guru or God for everyone when God was sending his Sons or Gurus to earth to carry on his mission.

The Adi Granth is not God, none of the Gurus were.

Why would God change his method of bringing souls back to Him? In the time of Guru Nanak, there was no Adi Granth and Guru Nanak was able to take his marked sheep back to the lord, so why was Gods method changed? God used his Sons in the time of Jesus, when he sent Saint John, Jesus Christ, and then Saint Paul and Saint Peter. In those time Jesus had apostles. The Buddha used the relationship of master and disciple to take souls back to the Lord.

[/quote]

My answer to that is simple. I do not believe Jesus or Buddha [rather odd you would mention Buddha considering he was a self-proclaimed agnostic skeptical of God's very existence] or any of the prominent religious figures actually spoke for God. I do not believe any religion save Sikhi. As for our own Guru Sahibaan, they certainly never claimed that God spoke through them, or that Gurbani was a 'revelation' in the same way that the authors of the Bible or the Koran did.

Where is the proof that the Adi Granth was made Guru for all future people born in the Sikh tradition, and not just for his remaining disciples who could have understood the message much better since they are likely to know what Guru Gobind Singh Ji meant since they had contact him whilst he was alive.

Can you be serious? The proof is in the very words of Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself - Agiaa Bhai Akaal Kee, Tabhai Chalayo Panth, Sabh Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Maneyo Granth. The Bani of the Sikhs has never undergone revision, alteration or abrogation, as it is utterly sacrosanct. Guru Har Rai Sahib disowned his own son for altering a single word.

People say the rumour is that Guru Gobind Singh made the Adi Granth a Guru forever for the rest of the sikhs, but it may well be just a rumour. And how do we know the people who read this 100 years later did not misinterpret the message for example the message may have been meant for the living sikhs at the time who were already baptised by Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

The line of Bani i have provided above can only be interpreted in one way. It is hardly esoteric or arcane.

[fiveshabds]

Can anyone provide proof that the Adi Granth was made Guru, and was made Guru for all future sikhs rather than just the current disciples or sikhs who were alive at the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

If Guru Gobind Singh Ji made Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Guru at all, then he could only have meant it to be forever. Guru Granth Sahib Ji after all, not being a human, lacks the agency to nominate or appoint successors. Considering that Guru Granth Sahib couldn't ever possibly appoint a Guru to succeed them, how could they be anything but the very last in the line of Guruship?

How do you know he wanted the line of masters to continue, its possible that he left the Adi Granth for his current disciples and ended the line of masterships. In history not all lines of mastership have been known from the beginning to the end of creation. Guru Gobind knows best what he meant and did.

How do we know that Guru Gobind Singh Ji meant that the Adi Granth will be the Guru or God for everyone when God was sending his Sons or Gurus to earth to carry on his mission.

The Adi Granth is not God, none of the Gurus were.

The Gurus were one with God meaning they are the same as God. Its all the same. Jesus speaks of the Holy Trinity - The father (God), the Son (Guru) and the Holy Ghost (Shabd or Word), which are all one.

Why would God change his method of bringing souls back to Him? In the time of Guru Nanak, there was no Adi Granth and Guru Nanak was able to take his marked sheep back to the lord, so why was Gods method changed? God used his Sons in the time of Jesus, when he sent Saint John, Jesus Christ, and then Saint Paul and Saint Peter. In those time Jesus had apostles. The Buddha used the relationship of master and disciple to take souls back to the Lord.

My answer to that is simple. I do not believe Jesus or Buddha [rather odd you would mention Buddha considering he was a self-proclaimed agnostic skeptical of God's very existence] or any of the prominent religious figures actually spoke for God. I do not believe any religion save Sikhi. As for our own Guru Sahibaan, they certainly never claimed that God spoke through them, or that Gurbani was a 'revelation' in the same way that the authors of the Bible or the Koran did.

Its true that Buddha did not say look to God, all he said was look to your actions, look to your Karmas, because he didn't want to confuse people with concepts of God. But still why would God change his method of taking the souls back, is he really such a whimsical creature?

Where is the proof that the Adi Granth was made Guru for all future people born in the Sikh tradition, and not just for his remaining disciples who could have understood the message much better since they are likely to know what Guru Gobind Singh Ji meant since they had contact him whilst he was alive.

Can you be serious? The proof is in the very words of Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself - Agiaa Bhai Akaal Kee, Tabhai Chalayo Panth, Sabh Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Maneyo Granth. The Bani of the Sikhs has never undergone revision, alteration or abrogation, as it is utterly sacrosanct. Guru Har Rai Sahib disowned his own son for altering a single word.

Under orders of the Immortal Being, the Panth was created.
All Sikhs are enjoined to accept the Granth as their Guru.
Consider the Guru Granth as an embodiment of the Gurus.
Those who want to meet God, can find Him in its hymns.
The pure shall rule, and the impure will be no more,
Those separated will unite and all the devotees of the Guru shall be saved.

People say the rumour is that Guru Gobind Singh made the Adi Granth a Guru forever for the rest of the sikhs, but it may well be just a rumour. And how do we know the people who read this 100 years later did not misinterpret the message for example the message may have been meant for the living sikhs at the time who were already baptised by Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

It says all sikhs, it doesn't mean all future sikhs, by saying all sikhs he is saying all existing sikhs. How do we know if he meant for all future it does not clearly say that. Why would guidance change from the Living to the Living, where is the necessity for God to change his methods. It says those who wish to meet him can find him in his Bani, which is his Word his Sound.

The line of Bani i have provided above can only be interpreted in one way. It is hardly esoteric or arcane.

So therefore it can be interpreted esoterically.

[swarn bains]

they i have heard that guru gobind singh jee put 5 paisa and coconut in front of sggs and bowed down in front of it. that was it.
the second saying that it was written by guru jee in hazoor sahib. i went to hazoor sahib . i went in the museum and walked around to find if there was such a writing. i did not ask any one but i could not find any such writing.
third assumption is that the king of jind had opened a school at panipat for sikh studies. it is said that some one from that school wrote raj karega khalsa. i might be wrong in my quotes and plead to the organizers to forgive me. thanks

[AS Khalsa]

How do you know he wanted the line of masters to continue, its possible that he left the Adi Granth for his current disciples and ended the line of masterships. In history not all lines of mastership have been known from the beginning to the end of creation. Guru Gobind knows best what he meant and did.

Saying something is possible does nothing to advance the argument. Of course its possible that Guru Ji left the Adi Granth only for his current disciples. Incidentally it is also possible that Guru Gobind Singh Ji owned a black horse called Rani whom he declared Guru after him. But neither of these, not your unsubstantiated view, or the blatanly ridiculous example I have posited, have any provenance or concrete evidence whatsoever. Why posit it in the first place? If you discovered some lost manuscript which explicitly said Adi Granth was not the Guru, I could take your point more seriously. But lack of evidence for something is not evidence of something else.

The Gurus were one with God meaning they are the same as God. Its all the same. Jesus speaks of the Holy Trinity - The father (God), the Son (Guru) and the Holy Ghost (Shabd or Word), which are all one.

To conflate the Gurus with Jesus in this regard demonstrates an ignorance of Christianity. In Sikhi, absolutely anyone can become one with God, be they Guru or commoner. This simply isn't the case in Christianity. Jesus was said to be God himself incarnate, an avatar. The same couldn't be said of anyone else. In Christianity, nobody can become one with God. The doctrines of these two religions are irreconcilable, so how could both Jesus and the Gurus be sent to enlighten mankind by the very same being? Besides, whether or not Jesus and God were one is another debate altogether. I myself don't believe it for one second.

But still why would God change his method of taking the souls back, is he really such a whimsical creature?

How exactly has the method of taking souls back changed between the human Gurus and Guru Granth Sahib Ji? The living Gurus disseminated advice on moral living and proper spiritual practice. So does Guru Granth Sahib.

Under orders of the Immortal Being, the Panth was created.
All Sikhs are enjoined to accept the Granth as their Guru.
Consider the Guru Granth as an embodiment of the Gurus.
Those who want to meet God, can find Him in its hymns.
The pure shall rule, and the impure will be no more,
Those separated will unite and all the devotees of the Guru shall be saved.

You quote that is if to bolster your own view. It seems to me that it reinforces my own. The proof is in the words of the Guru. Guru Ji even says that 'those who want to meet God can find him in the Shabad'. By your logic, does that only apply to the current disciples of Guru Gobind Singh at the time of this edict? Would the Shabad, after a time, be incapable of returning souls to God? It seems to me that if something is capable of directing souls to the almighty, this is not a power whose potency wanes as time progresses. Guru Ji, as your own words have shown, surmised that the Granth contained all that was necessary to achieve mukhta. Therefore, why would any more human Gurus be necessary?

It says all sikhs, it doesn't mean all future sikhs, by saying all sikhs he is saying all existing sikhs.

Yes it says all Sikhs. But why couldn't that mean all future Sikhs, and why instead must it mean all existing Sikhs?
If this was as profound a discrepancy as you seem to believe, surely someone must have picked up on it in all the three hundred years after Guru Gobind Singh Ji's death. People far smarter than you or I have analysed this verse, people better versed in the intricacies of language than either of us, and they did not think that neglecting to use the phrase 'all future Sikhs' exempted the Sikhs of the future from their devotion to the one true Guru, Guru Granth Sahib.

How do we know if he meant for all future it does not clearly say that.

Nor does it clearly say all existing Sikhs. The absence of a word is no reason to substitute it for another.

Why would guidance change from the Living to the Living, where is the necessity for God to change his methods. It says those who wish to meet him can find him in his Bani, which is his Word his Sound.

[/quote]

The Gurus were defined by their teachings. It was their teachings, their thoughts, their writings that brought people to God. Not their bodies, their material husks, or their personalities. Their word is all that is necessary. And the word is what is contained in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

If you'd indulge me, I've a question for you. If you truly believe, as you seem to indicate in your posts, that Guru Granth Sahib Ji should not be Guru, how do you believe they came to be Guru? Could an error so grievous as this really have been perpetrated without being documented in a single source anywhere at any time?

[fiveshabds]

Its possible that the religious leaders at that time wanted to use the Granth Sahib for their own selfish purposes and thus appointed it Guru.

Yes so my point is it is unclear whether the Granth Sahib is really the Guru for all time.

What is the Shabad? The Shabad isn't what is written in the Granth Sahib. The Shabad is the 5 Sound Currents. The 10 Sikh Gurus used the words Shabd, Naam, and Sound Current interchangeably for that Divine Melody or Audible Life Stream.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurban ... am=english

Please read this. It clearly states "the sound current of the shabad" vibrates. This is not something which is contained in the writings of the Granth Sahib.

If you read the next line, it is called the "Unstruck Sound Current" meaning which it is not heard with these physical ears. It is a divine melody and a divine light which is heard by the ear and seeing faculty of the soul.

[AS Khalsa]

Its possible that the religious leaders at that time wanted to use the Granth Sahib for their own selfish purposes and thus appointed it Guru.

It seems to me that if corrupt religious officials wished to exercise a malign and selfish influence over the Sikh community, the best thing to do would be to install a human Guru as a puppet whom they could manipulate. That would certainly be my choice over a book which can never be altered [according to Sikh law], and therefore never corrupted. If not more practical, it would at least be easier. Humans are very susceptible to corruption. Written texts, less so.

Its no good saying you believe religious leaders used the Guru Granth Sahib for selfish purposes, and then not allude to what you think these egotistical motives were. That raises more questions than it answers. May I ask, what foul purpose do you believe could have motivated someone to establish the Granth as Guru?

What is the Shabad? The Shabad isn't what is written in the Granth Sahib. The Shabad is the 5 Sound Currents. The 10 Sikh Gurus used the words Shabd, Naam, and Sound Current interchangeably for that Divine Melody or Audible Life Stream.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurban ... am=english

Please read this. It clearly states "the sound current of the shabad" vibrates. This is not something which is contained in the writings of the Granth Sahib.

If you read the next line, it is called the "Unstruck Sound Current" meaning which it is not heard with these physical ears. It is a divine melody and a divine light which is heard by the ear and seeing faculty of the soul.

Yes, and what is your point? You are aware that people called Raagis exist for the very purpose you describe above, of ensuring that the ears hear the Shabad, the divine melody? A human Guru is once again, wholly unnecessary for this process.

Shabad is Gurbani, vocalised. There can be no Shabad without Gurbani, but there can be Gurbani without Shabad.

And the 'unstruck sound current' or Naad, which you claim isn't contained within the writings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, in actual fact happens to be mentioned on no less than 43 occasions. Your lack of knowledge of Gurbani is astounding for a person making such sweeping declarations about its nature.

[swarn bains]

sabad is the lesson by the guru to the student to recite from ages and it is same today as well. five sounds or ten sounds sort of indicate the yoga way

[guptsingh108]

Here are some historical sources. I have taken these from: Singh, Ganda. “Guru Gobind Singh’s Death at Nanded : An Examination of Succession Theories.” Punjabi University, Patiala. 2008.

Sri Gur Sobha, written by Sainapat in 1711, three years after the Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s passing:
"A day before his death, the Singh’s asked him as to the form he was adopting (or the person whom he was nominating to succeed him). In reply he said that the Khalsa was his very self and that to them he had granted his robe - his physical self – “Bakhsh deeo Khalis ko jama” - and that “the Eternal and the limitless Word uttered with the Lord's light is our Supreme Master - Satguru hamara apar apara Shabad bichara ajar-jaran."

Bhai Nand Lal, who was present at Nanded at the time of the Guru’s passing, tells us in the Rahit-Nama (written in the form of a dialogue between the Guru and Bhai Nand Lal) that the Guru had told him that:
“…in addition to his soul being a part of the Invisible Divine Soul (Nirgun saroop), his two other forms were the Granth - Mera roop Granth ji jaan -embodying the Gur-bani, and the Sikhs (the Khalsa) deeply absorbed in it.”

Bhai Prahlad Singh and Chaupa Singh Rait-Nama’s both state:
“With the order of the Eternal Lord has been established the (Sikh) Panth. All the Sikhs are hereby commanded to obey the Granth as the Guru.”

The Gur-Bilas Chhevin was begun by its author, poet Sohan, in May 1717 and was completed on July 22, 1718 (Sawan 22, Sudi 5, 1775 Bikrami), within ten years of the Guru's death. Its fourth chapter is devoted to the compilation of the holy book by Guru Arjun and the first twelve verses of the fifth chapter to its formal installation in the Darbar Sahib, Amritsar. Therein the author has invariably used the then accepted the prefix Guru to the Granth and has called it the Guru Granth.
“Hear ye all, this precept of mine as true and certain. Recognize the Granth to be the same as the Guru, Think not of any difference between the two. (409)”

“In the Kali-yuga, the Guru Granth has assumed the form of the Sri Guru. Recognize the Guru Granth to be the very self of the Ten Gurus. (412) He who wishes to see the Guru, let him see the Guru Granth. And, he who wishes to speak to the Guru, let him read the Granth with a devoted mind. (413)”

Gur-Bilas Patshahi Das by Koer Singh, written in 1751, forty-three years after the death of the Guru. Bhai Koer Singh was a companion of Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh (who was installed as Granthi at Harmandir Sahib by Mata Sundri). Bhai Koer Singh says, in the words of Guru Gobind singh, that Guru Nanak Dev Ji has himself told Baba Budda:

"Recognize Ten of our incarnations when your family will be supreme."
"When the Ten incarnations disappear [from this world with the death of the Tenth one], then the ancestral line - kul- will not continue."
"It is no longer the time for Guruship : I will not anoint anyone [now]. "
“Consider the entire Khalsa to have been entrusted to the protection (lap) of the Wielder of the Sword - the Divine Protector. "
“I have given to you to hold the sheet of the embodiment of Word (shabad ki roop). He who accepts it shall be an incomparable - really true - Singh. "
“Recognize Sri Granth ji as ever-ready (readily available, ever - present) darshan (sight, appearance or embodiment) of the Guru.”
"Bring it here to this place." The Guru had then grown very weak, as it is then mentioned that The Holy Book was, therefore, brought to him. Coming to know of it, he said:
"Let us go to the Aad Sat-Guru (the great Aad Guru Granth Sahib).” Then he got up along with all of his Sikhs, took five paise and a coconut with him, offered them himself [to the Holy Book], bowed down, circumambulated with all reverence and said, “He who wishes to talk to me should read the Guru [Granth Sahib] and receive the peace of mind. There is no other Guru equal to it. Without any hesitation, I utter this truth. There is no other Guru like it anywhere. Therefore, it should be accepted as the True Guru. With its study (darshan) sins disappear. And by realizing its Word in practice, salvation is obtained."

Guru Sahib Daswen Patsahah ji ke Joti jot Samawane ka Prasang, which is based on the information received from the companions of the Guru himself- Hazur ke khas Sikhan di rasna theen -, the Guru before his death, told the Sikhs that he was not appointing anyone to succeed him as Guru, that he was entrusting them to Sri Sahib and the Shabad, the Great Word, as given in the Granth Sahib which should be accepted by them all. Koer Singh was a close companion of Bhai Mani Singh

Bansavali Nama of Kesar Singh Chhibar completed in 1826 Bikrami, 1769-70 A.D. Kesar Singh's ancestors had been in the service of Guru Gobind Singh as diwans. He claims to have seen and consulted in his early days a bahi or account-book of the house of the Guru. The tenth charan or chapter of the book deals with the life of Guru Gobind Singh. Towards the end of it, in stanzas 649-654, he mentions the death of the Guru and his last commandment saying in reply to the questions of the Sikhs : "The Granth is the Guru; you hold the garment [seek the protection] of the Timeless God - bachan kita Granth hai Guru, lar pakro Akal [650]. In the fourteenth chapter, the author reaffirms that Guru Gobind Singh had formally proclaimed and installed Granth Sahib on the gaddi of Guruship and that no one else was to be recognized as Guru (verses 220-21). He also says that "at present Granth Sahib is our Guru," and "without the Granth, accept no one else as Guru".

Bhai Sukha Singh, the author ofthe Gur-Bilas, completed in 1854 Bikrami, 1797 A.D. :
About the last message of the Guru, Sukha Singh says that the Guru entrusted the Khalsa to the care of God and enjoined upon them to read the Bani of the Ten Gurus, that is, the Guru Granth Sahib -Das mehlan ki parhiye bani.

The account of the death of Guru Gobind Singh as given in Sakhi 27 of Sakhian Patshahi Das chapter of the Mehma Prakash by Sarup Das Bhalla, may on the whole be said to be nearest the truth and may be accepted as objective and historical. Written by a descendant of Guru Amar Das and based, apparently, on reliable evidence, it was completed in January 1801.

“When the Guru took the bow in his hand and wished to pull it, the Sikhs submitted that the wound had not yet completely healed. The Guru said that there was no cause for fear. He then pulled the bow, and the stitches gave way. At this time the Guru said that the time for his death had come. He called the Sikhs to his presence and he was pleased to see them. The Sikhs then asked him where they would have the darshan [of the Guru]. The Great Guru, merciful to the lowly, said: "Our Ten forms have come to end. Now recognize the Guru Granth Sahib in my place, He who wishes to talk to me should read the Aad Granth Sahib. This will be like talking to me. I have entrusted you to the lap of the Almighty,"

The Gur-Pratap Suraj Granth, popularly known as the Suraj Prakash, by Bhai Santokh Singh, completed in 1900 Bikrami, 1843 A.D. It will be interesting to note here that, unlike, all other writers on the subject, the author of the Suraj Prakash mentions the installation of the Holy Book, the Guru Granth Sahib, as Guru during the last days of Guru Har Krishan as also of the Baba of Bakala.
Munshi Sant Singh, a vakil of the Bedis, wrote an account of the Bedi family of Una under the title of the Bayan-i-Khandan-i-Karamat Nishan-i-Bedian from the time of Guru Nanak to that of Baba Sujan Singh. It was completed in May 1865:

“When on Katik Sudi 5, 1765 Bikrami, Guru Gobind Singh was about to die at Nanded in the Daccan, all the Singhs and disciples asked him as to who would be the future Guru. The Guru then said : "Guru Khalsa, Khalsa Guru. He who shall observe the Sikh rahit or the rules of conduct and morality and meditation, him know ye to be my very self." Then thinking that there should be a definite centre of faith for all the Sikhs, the Guru with five paise and a coconut in his hand (as offering) bowed before the Guru Granth Sahib and said: "Ye all community should recognize the Guru Granth Sahib as the Guru after me and obey the commandments contained therein." And then he uttered the following couplet: “Recognize the Guru Granth as the visible body ofthe Guru. The Sikh who wishes to meet me should find me therein.”

Bawa Sumer Singh is the author of the Pothi Gar-Bilas ki which was completed in 1873 and published in 1882 A.D. Therein he tells us in unambiguous language that, when the Guru was preparing for his death, he told the Sikhs present that he was placing the Khalsa in the lap of the Almighty God and that he would ever be present in the Khalsa. He then declared that Gura Granth Sahib would be the Guru after him. After this he departed for heaven.

Giani Gian Singh, the author of the Panth Prakash (1880 A. D.) and the Tawarikh Guru Khalsa (1891-92 A.D.):
“Guru Gobind Singh before his death formally installed the Guru Granth Sahib as the future Guru of the Sikhs. The Sikhs performed the Bhog ceremony of the Guru Granth Sahib on the tenth day of the Guru's death with all the prevalent rites.”

Rai Chatarman, the author of the Chahar Gulshan Akhbar-un-Nawadir, also known as the Chatar Gulshan or Khualast-un-Nawadir, compiled his work in 1759, soon after the death of Mata Sundri about whom, and about Ajit Singh, her adopted son, and Mata Sahib Devi, he seems to be well informed:

"As declared by Guru Nanak," says he, "there are Ten persons [to be recognized]. These Ten khalifahs (Gurus) are called Das Mahal. Anyone else sitting on the gaddi after them is not acceptable to them (the Sikhs).”

In the Majma-ul-Akhbar (1214-20A.H., 1799-1805 A.D.), its author Har Sukh Rai says about Guru Gobind Singh that "He is the Tenth Mahal and is the last Zahur (appearance or successor) of Guru Nanak".

Muhammad Ali Khan Ansari has to his credit two very important historical works, the Tarikh-i-Muzaffari, (1225 A.H., 1810 A.D.) and the Tarikh-i-Bahr-ul-Mawwaj. Before the end of Guru Gobind Singh's account, Muhammad Ali Khan writes that "after him (Guru Gobind Singh), according to the faith of these people (the Sikhs), the descending of Guruship and of internal spiritualism came to an end and the book, the Granth, was established in place of the Guru.

At the same time in 1810 A.D. (1225 A.H.) was completed Ahmed bin Muhammad Ali's Mirat-ul-Ahwal-i-Jahan Numa. According to it, "the sons of Guru Gobind had been killed in the battle of Alamgir. After him there is no khalifah (successor, Guru)."

Khushwaqt Rai's Tarikh-I-Sikhan, also called the Kitab-i-Tawirkh-i-Panjab, was written in 1811. Therein he says that "at Afzal [Abchal] Nagar [Nanded] the Guru purchased a piece of land and moved in all happiness from this transitory world to the world Eternal. The disciples of the Guru collected from all sides and cremated his dead body with aloe and sandalwood with all the necessary rites. This event, that is his death, took place on Katik Sudi 5,1765 Bikrami. The generation (of Gurus) ofGuru Nanak up to Guru Gobind Singh came to an end.”

The Umdat-ut-Tawarikh of Lala Sohan Lal Suri is a very important work on the reign of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and his successors up to 1849. Although its first volume dealing with the Guru and Misal periods was published in 1885, it was originally begun in the form of notes somewhere in the middle of the eighteenth century during the time of Sohan Lal Suri's grandfather and father Lala Hakamat Rai and Lala Ganpat Rai. It tells us that during the last moments of Guru Gobind Singh's life a disciple of his asked him as to whom he had appointed as Guru after him. Thereupon the Guru replied that "the Guru is Granth ji. There is no difference between the Granth and the Guru. From the darshan of Granth ji one shall have the happy darshan ofthe Guru Sahib. "

Ghualm Muhy-ud-Din alias Bute Shah in his Tarikh-i-Panjab of 1848, and Mufti Ali-ud-Din in his Ibrat Namah of 1854 have both mentioned the death of the Guru as an historical fact. Bute Shah in his abridged recension ofthe Tarikh-i-Panjab (preserved in the Panjab Public Library, Lahore) has, like Lala Sohan Lal's Umdat-ut-Tawarikh, recorded the last commandment of the Guru regarding the Granth being the Guru after his death, saying that "there is no difference between the Guru and the Granth."

The last Persian work to be referred to on the subject is Kanhaiya Lal Hindi's Zafar Namah-i-Ranjit Singh published at Lahore in 1876. In the introductory pages, he has given a sketch of the Gurus, at the end of which he says that "Guru Gobind Singh died at Abchala Nagar (Nanded in the Deccan) in 1765 Bk. and that no one (of his disciples)succeeded him to the (throne of Guruship). With him ended the gaddi of leadership (masnad-i-sarwarf) and with him came to an end the custom of the (succession of) Gurus (Shewa-i--rahbari).

Here onwards we have the accounts of the British Scholars like Sir John Malcolm, W.G. Osborne, Dr. W.L. M’Gregor and Captain J.D Cunningham, and I am not repeating them here.

[Biriabc]

WJKK
WJKF
Dear all,
My understanding of the query is as follows.

“ਸੱਚਾ ਗੁਰੂ” [True Guru] – by Giani Udham Singh, first printed September 1954. It was subsequently reprinted by The Sikh Missionary Society U.K. 10 Featherstone Road, Southall, Middlesex. UK Tele: 020-8574-1902, in June 1983. It is in Punjabi and I have taken extracts from the Chapter “ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੋਣ ਦੇ ਸਬੂਤ” [Proof that Guru Sahib is the Guru].

The article is 8 pages long and has references to support the title. Unfortunately I am unable to type the references in Punjabi or Persian but I will make an effort in Romanised lettering for some of them
a) “Mahima Prakash” an 18th century manuscript {?1741} mentions “ Sikan ne puchea ab darshan kahan krehn. Satguru deen dayal bachan keea jo das saroop hamare sampuran bhae, ab meri jahge sri guru granth sahib ko janna. Jis ne mere se baat karni hoi, aad guru ganth sahib ka paad karna, mere se baat hovegee”

b) Guru Gobind Singh’s babysitter [Kedawa] – Bhai Chopa Singh has written - Guru Sahib ne khalse nu hukam keeta: “Ageya Guru Granth Sahib de manni”

c) Another Persian manuscript of the time “ Omdaat Twareekh” mentions on page 64 “ Vakte nazea sakhne aaz neaaz mundane abooteeat nisha arz namuood ke baadh aaz intehaz zate vala nphast aaz aalme phani baturaph jahane javdanee kudaam kam ra guru mukarar namudeh ershad lazam ool inkeyab jalwa eeyad yaphat ke guru granth jee ast. Darmeaane granth wa guru hech pharke neast aaz deedar granth jee mushahid deedare pharhat”.
This translates in Punjabi as “Joti jot smaun wele ageyakari singhan ne benti keeti, aap jee de sarab guna sampan jot de saman jaan pichon kis nu guru sathapan keet hai. Rabi jalve vale guru sahib jee da hukam milea ke granth jee hee guru han, guru te granth sahib which bhed nahin. Granth jee de darshan to guru de prasanta bhare deedar hoya karan ge”

d) There are other references to the above by Kavi Senapati in his writings [a poet in Guru Gobind Singh’s court]

e) Another contemporary writer Nand Lal says in his rehat nama [instruction 14]: ਜੋ ਸਿੱਖ ਗੁਰ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਕੀ ਚਾਹਿ: The Sikh desirous of the Guru’s Darshan, ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਕਰੇ ਗੰਰ੍ਰ੍ਥ ਜੀ ਆਹਿ ॥ (੧੪) Should go and have the Darshan of Granth Jee. This is I believe one of the earliest Rehat Nama’s written in 1776

I apologise for my very poor Romanised Punjabi and Persian.

“As we do not have exact spoken words of Guru Gobind Singh Je, in audio form” but I am sure “a history student” would accept corroborative support as that what most of ancient history is!

Gur Fateh