Gay and being spiritual ? Deep thoughts that I have sometime

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Harmanjeet
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Gay and being spiritual ? Deep thoughts that I have sometime

Post by Harmanjeet »

I think someone who is busy with their lives won't have deep thoughts, because they have no time for it LOL

but still I am sure most of us, atleast here on this forum, must have tried to make sense of our lives. Why were we born when infact chances of us being born were so slim ?
Why things are the way they are ? I was quite a spiritual boy in childhood. I infact also took amrit when I was 12 but just the next year I entered puberty and discovered the sensual pleasures. My mind soon became diverted and by the time I was 15, kirpan was not on my body.
I find it funny at times how much I have changed ! From being a simpleton sissy 13 yr old who barely bothered anything more than tuition, school and his books and now 24 yr old almost atheist (seldom spiritual).

When I was 13, I noticed that I liked the men on the daily soaps my mom watched. (I hope you get the idea of those clean shaven hunks in 'saas-bahu' serials on indian television , Yeah ! now you get it :P ).
I initially didn't bother. I had no need to. I was a 13 yr old, alone kid of my parents and pampered by them. It was a simple life. But , as I grew and faced real world, I realized life is not so what I thought. I was mistaken. People hated me for being gay and then I realized existence of words like 'gay', 'homosexuality'. Now I knew there are words to describe my feelings and there are people like me. I was not alone !

It was extremely painful to realize that people don't take well your ilk and recent legislations in africa at behest of god-men /religious people like Scott Lively prove how deadly religion and sometimes faith in patriarchal gods can be !
How ironic it is men who claim to be servants of god strive hard to pass legislations muzzling the freedom of people who already have little freedom and how ironic that they are not shaken by other things like poverty , rape, murder.

But anyways thats not the point. Sorry for drifting.

My point is : I feel could it be that I am gay merely because this is part of god's larger plan ? maybe this is one blessing in disguise for me to be liberated of reincarnation, but then the moment this thought comes in my mind, my skeptical mind pops up "But what if religion/god/scriptures is all just human creation of ancient men to theorize everything and make better sense of world around them ? What if reincarnation is just a myth? How do you even know its real and maybe this is the one life we all have , and oblivion before birth and after death !"

I am not scared of oblivion BUT at times I do feel a bit spiritual even though I am an atheist becoz what I was taught in gurudwara about god (merciful, loving, forgiving , you get the drift !?) and the condition of poor in real world is exactly opposite. "So, maybe god is just a concept after all !" says my rational mind.

But, then again I often wonder sometimes when alone "Could there really be a bigger purpose to my life? Why am I gay? Is there really a past karma responsible for this? and if so is being gay a punishment of that karam or a blessing ?"

What do you think ?
swarn bains
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Re: Gay and being spiritual ? Deep thoughts that I have some

Post by swarn bains »

sexual orientation is the body function which to a large degree controlled by the brain. The spiritual orientation or the function is the function of mind and the soul. The two have no link. sexual orientation has no affect on spiritual function. only thing which affects the spiritual function is the lust; means one thinks of it all the time or takes over the mind or the thinking. then it may affect the spiritual thinking otherwise it does not. so do not worry what sexual orientation you or someone else has.
inder-veer
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Re: Gay and being spiritual ? Deep thoughts that I have some

Post by inder-veer »

sexuality and spirituality are two completely different things, you progressing spiritually has got nothing to do with your sexuality. its important to remember that our souls have no gender, our goal is to merge into the bigger soul, god, which also does not have a gender, so why should anyone's sexuality be considered a barrier? this is one reason why Indian religions are unique, they don't accept everyone the way they are. gender and sexuality is a materialistic thing and a human aspect rather than a spiritual aspect. spiritual progression has got nothing to do with anyone's sexuality, but if it is sex that all one thinks about 24/7 then yeah that is lust controlling them which will lead to desires and other distractions. why someone is born gay im not sure if Sikhism has an answer to that
mandip1
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Re: Gay and being spiritual ? Deep thoughts that I have some

Post by mandip1 »

hello

Can i say something. we are born with sexual gendes for a reason, you might not like what i have to say, but if God wanted you to like men you would have been a girl.
silverlion
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Re: Gay and being spiritual ? Deep thoughts that I have some

Post by silverlion »

"If God had wanted you to like boys then you would have been born a girl." Really, Ji? How do you know that? Would you be willing to pay for a complete sex change operation for this individual? If you know all this so very well, then could you please enlighten us all as to why Partition happened the way it did, why the Holocaust happened, why Ayurvedic and Chinese meds work so well much of the time, and yet also Western emergency rooms can do a great job of patching people up who have been in accidents, wars, and such like, and why are certain flowers yellow and other red? While you are at it, could you please also tell us why you are showing such an insensitive attitude towards someone just because they happen to be gay? Also, please do be advised that scientists have found that in any given population of many animal species, as well as humans, that easily forty per cent of that population is homosexual. Why is that, do you think? Provided, of course, that you are actually thinking and not just repeating some drivel of homophobia because you think it makes you look cool. I apologize for my nasty tone; it is sarcastic and caustic, but I am not amending it because you really might stop and think about how your words come across to others.
God is not worried about whether or not someone is homosexual. Many people are thusly worried however, and so if one is homosexual one has to be discreet about it for obvious reasons. The most important and intimate relationship you will ever have is the one you have with God and Guru. That is the true treasure of this life! Nanak Ji said it best; see God in All. Yes, that includes yourself, as well as people like the one I quoted above, everyone on this forum, and everyone in the world. We are all children of God, and we will sometimes bicker with one another, as siblings will from time to time, but what is important is to be at peace with how you relate with God. Again, an apology for my nastiness, however, I did it to prove a point. Homophobia is ridiculous and there are better things to do with one's time, energy and life than quibble over making pronouncements as to whether or not someone should be a girl or a boy.
Romesh Kumar
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Re: Gay and being spiritual ? Deep thoughts that I have some

Post by Romesh Kumar »

silverlion wrote:"If God had wanted you to like boys then you would have been born a girl." Really, Ji? How do you know that? Would you be willing to pay for a complete sex change operation for this individual? If you know all this so very well, then could you please enlighten us all as to why Partition happened the way it did, why the Holocaust happened, why Ayurvedic and Chinese meds work so well much of the time, and yet also Western emergency rooms can do a great job of patching people up who have been in accidents, wars, and such like, and why are certain flowers yellow and other red? While you are at it, could you please also tell us why you are showing such an insensitive attitude towards someone just because they happen to be gay? Also, please do be advised that scientists have found that in any given population of many animal species, as well as humans, that easily forty per cent of that population is homosexual. Why is that, do you think? Provided, of course, that you are actually thinking and not just repeating some drivel of homophobia because you think it makes you look cool. I apologize for my nasty tone; it is sarcastic and caustic, but I am not amending it because you really might stop and think about how your words come across to others.
God is not worried about whether or not someone is homosexual. Many people are thusly worried however, and so if one is homosexual one has to be discreet about it for obvious reasons. The most important and intimate relationship you will ever have is the one you have with God and Guru. That is the true treasure of this life! Nanak Ji said it best; see God in All. Yes, that includes yourself, as well as people like the one I quoted above, everyone on this forum, and everyone in the world. We are all children of God, and we will sometimes bicker with one another, as siblings will from time to time, but what is important is to be at peace with how you relate with God. Again, an apology for my nastiness, however, I did it to prove a point. Homophobia is ridiculous and there are better things to do with one's time, energy and life than quibble over making pronouncements as to whether or not someone should be a girl or a boy.
Rightly said but I think people (of Indian origin in particular) look at this from social angle.it is combined with another doubt that people of this social class use to exploit some children of straight orientation.
Secondly, good or bad and right or wrong always use to happen in the world but that still does not justify bad and wrong in civilized society.
Thanks
Nihal Singh Kanakpuria
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Re: Gay and being spiritual ? Deep thoughts that I have some

Post by Nihal Singh Kanakpuria »

Harmanjeet,

At one time humans thought that the sun, planets and the entire universe revolves around the earth. This ideology was driven from the idea that we humans are so so important that the universe revolves around us, forget revolving it was even created for us.

The notion that we are so special that god has a "grand" plan for us is also driven from the same ideology that i am so damn important that god has a grand plan for me, than the others..

Reality is, if you are remotely spiritual, you will get a feeling of humility and of being one and equal with this universe, with every creation of the creator, right now your ego that's not letting you think straight (not in the sexual orientation way).

Nihal
singh245
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Re: Gay and being spiritual ? Deep thoughts that I have some

Post by singh245 »

Yes being gay is a sin... Sex for pleasure is a sin. Sex for procreation is not. gay sex no chance of procreation so it is wrong. If you are gay celibacy is the way to go. That said celibacy for hetero sexual is also the way to go because it is so hard to conquer lust. simple answer yes being gay is wrong, but should we harass gay people... No. The comment about Indians saying theses things because of culture and social reasons is funny.... You can say the exact same thing about its acceptance.

To quote Guru Arjan, Nanak V: “O Kam, thou landest people in hell and makest them wander through many births, enticest all minds, swayest all the three worlds and undoest one's meditation, austerities and restraint. The pleasure is ephemeral and thou afflictest high and low alike "

"In the sinning heart reigns kam and the fickle mind breaks out of control. Kam casts its noose even upon yogis, jangams and sannyasis. Only those imbued with God's Name (fall not a prey to it) and are able to go across the ocean of existence" (GG, 1186)

There are lost of gay people in india. They can not get married in gurdwara but they can get a blessing from the gurdwara after the civil marriage. Sikh's do not differentiate on different levels of sin gay man lusting for a man is just as bad as a man lusting for a women.
Romesh Kumar
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Re: Gay and being spiritual ? Deep thoughts that I have some

Post by Romesh Kumar »

singh245 wrote:Yes being gay is a sin... Sex for pleasure is a sin. Sex for procreation is not. gay sex no chance of procreation so it is wrong. If you are gay celibacy is the way to go. That said celibacy for hetero sexual is also the way to go because it is so hard to conquer lust. simple answer yes being gay is wrong, but should we harass gay people... No. The comment about Indians saying theses things because of culture and social reasons is funny.... You can say the exact same thing about its acceptance.

To quote Guru Arjan, Nanak V: “O Kam, thou landest people in hell and makest them wander through many births, enticest all minds, swayest all the three worlds and undoest one's meditation, austerities and restraint. The pleasure is ephemeral and thou afflictest high and low alike "

"In the sinning heart reigns kam and the fickle mind breaks out of control. Kam casts its noose even upon yogis, jangams and sannyasis. Only those imbued with God's Name (fall not a prey to it) and are able to go across the ocean of existence" (GG, 1186)

There are lost of gay people in india. They can not get married in gurdwara but they can get a blessing from the gurdwara after the civil marriage. Sikh's do not differentiate on different levels of sin gay man lusting for a man is just as bad as a man lusting for a women.
I do not think if Gurus have ever endorsed any unnatural act. If there is no specific mention or talk about unnatural acts, that does not mean an endorsement but means that that is not Gurus and scriptures use to preach and talk about.
Thanks
singh245
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Re: Gay and being spiritual ? Deep thoughts that I have some

Post by singh245 »

Romesh Kumar wrote:
singh245 wrote:Yes being gay is a sin... Sex for pleasure is a sin. Sex for procreation is not. gay sex no chance of procreation so it is wrong. If you are gay celibacy is the way to go. That said celibacy for hetero sexual is also the way to go because it is so hard to conquer lust. simple answer yes being gay is wrong, but should we harass gay people... No. The comment about Indians saying theses things because of culture and social reasons is funny.... You can say the exact same thing about its acceptance.

To quote Guru Arjan, Nanak V: “O Kam, thou landest people in hell and makest them wander through many births, enticest all minds, swayest all the three worlds and undoest one's meditation, austerities and restraint. The pleasure is ephemeral and thou afflictest high and low alike "

"In the sinning heart reigns kam and the fickle mind breaks out of control. Kam casts its noose even upon yogis, jangams and sannyasis. Only those imbued with God's Name (fall not a prey to it) and are able to go across the ocean of existence" (GG, 1186)

There are lost of gay people in india. They can not get married in gurdwara but they can get a blessing from the gurdwara after the civil marriage. Sikh's do not differentiate on different levels of sin gay man lusting for a man is just as bad as a man lusting for a women.
I do not think if Gurus have ever endorsed any unnatural act. If there is no specific mention or talk about unnatural acts, that does not mean an endorsement but means that that is not Gurus and scriptures use to preach and talk about.
Thanks

dude it is simple logic. Gay people have sex for pleasure not procreation and bani teaches us that is wrong.... Sex for pleasure for gay and hetero sexual is wrong. Plain and simple. So there for acting on gay feelings and engaging in those types of relations is wrong. But there are alot of wrong things going on in the world and it is no ones place to judge the severity of one sin over the other. example lying vs gay.... So as sikhs we should not send the message that being gay is ok just to be politically correct. And we should not hate on gays either. All we can do is try to tell the truth.
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